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If they were slapping a gigantic NFL stadium in my neighborhood I'd sure want some serious concessions.
Can you imagine the pandemonium that would erupt if they tried to put this thing in Midtown or Virginia Highland?
The net result isn't any different than how it is there already. 1 NFL stadium next to the neighborhood so I don't see the big deal really, it isn't anything additional.
The net result isn't any different than how it is there already. 1 NFL stadium next to the neighborhood so I don't see the big deal really, it isn't anything additional.
If it isn't anything additional, then why are we spending additional tax money on it?
The net result isn't any different than how it is there already. 1 NFL stadium next to the neighborhood so I don't see the big deal really, it isn't anything additional.
This stadium will be built in a different location, though not that far away, but it does affect the major surface streets in the neighborhoods. Also the two neighborhoods closest to the Dome - Castleberry and Vine City have already been experiencing a large amount of issues mostly to do with infrastructure and issues with tailgaters and stadium attendees that have never been addressed satisfactorily via the GWCC and the Dome. So there have been many problems with the Dome and GWCC that have never been taken care of adequately.
Also, this new stadium was touted to us as a way to "fix" the ills that happened when the Dome was initially built and at that time it was a BIG deal and many people were displaced and Vine City especially was impacted greatly by the Dome being built. The fact that there are so many parking lots in those renderings are VERY unnerving and upsetting. Both the neighborhoods I have mentioned are seeking to fight the surface parking lots and many, including myself, don't understand why they just don't include underground parking at the new stadium, similar to the huge lots at Atlantic Station. No one wants their neighborhood surrounded by parking lots.
But the big deal is that this stadium is huge and it is affecting our streets and the visitors leave a lot of mess, especially at Falcon's games and Vine City residents even have to pay for parking passes just because they live in their neighborhood and the city wouldn't even consider giving them a free parking pass since they are the ones who deal with all the vomit and trash and open urination/defecation that accompanies drunk football attendees. So for having to put up with all those problems, I do think that simple concessions should be provided to residents as even with a better design, the neighborhoods will still have to deal with the hassles that go along with being a destination for tens to hundreds of thousands of people at one time so the state and city can make millions upon millions of dollars. Once that stadium is built no one will be paying attention to our neighborhoods anymore in regards to improvements so it is in our best interest to get some of the things that should have already been done accomplished before the stadium is complete.
ATLANTA-- A lawsuit being pursued by a lawyer with a history of delaying development projects in Atlanta could hold up the new Falcons stadium indefinitely.
The court challenge to at least $200 million in bonds to help finance construction of the $1.2 billion project is set for a hearing April 10 in Fulton County Superior Court. Buckhead lawyer John Woodham has a track record of holding up development plans in Atlanta.
Last year, he took lawsuits challenging the use of school tax revenue to finance development projects along the Atlanta Beltline and in northwest Atlanta to the Georgia Supreme Court. By the time the justices dismissed the cases,the planned sale of $35 million in bonds for projects in the Perry-Bolton area had been delayed almost three years.
In 2008, Woodham prevailed in another lawsuit involving funding for the Beltline when the state Supreme Court declared unconstitutional the use of school taxes for purposes other than education. The General Assembly quickly passed a constitutional amendment essentially reversing the court decision, and voters ratified the change that fall.
If they were slapping a gigantic NFL stadium in my neighborhood I'd sure want some serious concessions.
Can you imagine the pandemonium that would erupt if they tried to put this thing in Midtown or Virginia Highland?
Really, they are just putting it next door to the convention center.
I don't like the neighborhood bribes. I understand overpaying for the churches. They were historic and I don't like having to condemn church property. But its gotten so that everybody has their hand out trying to get into the taxpayers pocket.
I guess the Falcons will be moving to Cobb County too...
In all seriousness though, Vine City should be doing better with all that development near there, and it'd be nice if they get to reap some of the benefits beyond having a church tear down some of Vine City to relocate after the church is booted off of MLK.
I don't think the city should maintain all the vacant properties for free. I think they should invoke imminent domain, take the property from the owner, and sell it to another either owner occupant or a vetted investor at rock bottom prices.
The problem is right now that they do not do anything about the properties sitting vacant. The properties are public safety hazards. Homeless people get into the properties and burn them up in the winter.
Other inane points omitted.
You aren't very knowledgeable on the subject nor really care about property rights apparently. I own an investment property in the Pittsburgh neighborhood. It is currently vacant and secured with VIP. The market downturn killed everything. I bought my investment in 2010 when I thought the market was rebounding, and apparently my timing was off. Things are only just starting to rebound and the city is retarring some roads and finally doing a little investment there. Largely because it's inside the beltline like Vine City and ITB is hot to investors and those neighborhoods have a lot of momentum. But prices are still low and investors are waiting. The neighborhoods don't gradually improve. There's a diagonal NE-SW line through the city that keeps moving Westward.
The properties sat vacant because you can't get much more than riff-raff to rent, who typically then invite all their homeless buddies in and collectively don't pay their rent until evicted. At which point they tear apart your home on the way out. So you're damned if you rent, damned if you don't. Neighborhoods tend to flip from one form of renter to another almost overnight (2-3 years) and the pattern is pretty established. The Pittsburgh neighborhood looks like it's about to go through a transition finally. But it's going to be 2-3 years still till it has $1500 rentals. In the meantime, it's a struggle to be a landlord. I gave up with renters and I used VIP to secure it and protect my investment. Some people don't bother...
If their properties get damaged beyond repair by copper thieves or other things then the city usually condemns it then tears it down. The cost of acquiring all the vacant properties would bankrupt the city. They may be "cheap" but there's a lot of them. About 2500 homes just in the Pittsburgh neighborhood, average value $50k but with some larger properties as well. Vine City probably has even more and some very expensive homes (relatively speaking) on Sunset. Do the math. One neighborhood like Vine City or Pittsburgh would be over $200 Million, conservatively.
Plus, they would get sued up the whazzoo by investors and perhaps some very poor homeowners that just can't keep up with maintenance. Some of them are REITs that have more money than the city of Atlanta.
But Atlanta already has a taskforce to condemn properties, and they are very aggressive. Nothing further is needed there.
The problem really is that the city not properly investing in certain areas. So Vine City is quite right to do this lawsuit. Where it's located, it's one of those neighborhoods next to "pop" like the Pittsburgh neighborhood, but the city has to put some money into it. I hate to say it - but some money into gentrification. To spread out the poverty and get more middle class in the Southern parts of downtown including Vine City.
That area where the Turner stadium is being torn down, the mayor was talking about putting some nice housing there. He has no clue. Investors like me can handle the nice houses once they get some jobs and investment going there. It's our pleasure since we make a profit fixing places up. Someone with the clout of a mayor should be trying to lure mixed-use office development there. That's near Mechanicsville and Pittsburgh. At Vine City, near the Falcons stadium, you can look across at all the empty fields along Northside on the Vine City side and see that Vine City should have the same complaints of the city under-investing in the neighborhood. Now really is the time in a transitional neighborhood like that.
Last edited by netdragon; 04-09-2014 at 03:51 AM..
You aren't very knowledgeable on the subject nor really care about property rights apparently. I own an investment property in the Pittsburgh neighborhood. It is currently vacant and secured with VIP. The market downturn killed everything. I bought my investment in 2010 when I thought the market was rebounding, and apparently my timing was off. Things are only just starting to rebound and the city is retarring some roads and finally doing a little investment there. Largely because it's inside the beltline like Vine City and ITB is hot to investors and those neighborhoods have a lot of momentum. But prices are still low and investors are waiting. The neighborhoods don't gradually improve. There's a diagonal NE-SW line through the city that keeps moving Westward.
The properties sat vacant because you can't get much more than riff-raff to rent, who typically then invite all their homeless buddies in and collectively don't pay their rent until evicted. At which point they tear apart your home on the way out. So you're damned if you rent, damned if you don't. Neighborhoods tend to flip from one form of renter to another almost overnight (2-3 years) and the pattern is pretty established. The Pittsburgh neighborhood looks like it's about to go through a transition finally. But it's going to be 2-3 years still till it has $1500 rentals. In the meantime, it's a struggle to be a landlord. I gave up with renters and I used VIP to secure it and protect my investment. Some people don't bother...
If their properties get damaged beyond repair by copper thieves or other things then the city usually condemns it then tears it down. The cost of acquiring all the vacant properties would bankrupt the city. They may be "cheap" but there's a lot of them. About 2500 homes just in the Pittsburgh neighborhood, average value $50k but with some larger properties as well. Vine City probably has even more and some very expensive homes (relatively speaking) on Sunset. Do the math. One neighborhood like Vine City or Pittsburgh would be over $200 Million, conservatively.
Plus, they would get sued up the whazzoo by investors and perhaps some very poor homeowners that just can't keep up with maintenance. Some of them are REITs that have more money than the city of Atlanta.
But Atlanta already has a taskforce to condemn properties, and they are very aggressive. Nothing further is needed there.
The problem really is that the city not properly investing in certain areas. So Vine City is quite right to do this lawsuit. Where it's located, it's one of those neighborhoods next to "pop" like the Pittsburgh neighborhood, but the city has to put some money into it. I hate to say it - but some money into gentrification. To spread out the poverty and get more middle class in the Southern parts of downtown including Vine City.
That area where the Turner stadium is being torn down, the mayor was talking about putting some nice housing there. He has no clue. Investors like me can handle the nice houses once they get some jobs and investment going there. It's our pleasure since we make a profit fixing places up. Someone with the clout of a mayor should be trying to lure mixed-use office development there. That's near Mechanicsville and Pittsburgh. At Vine City, near the Falcons stadium, you can look across at all the empty fields along Northside on the Vine City side and see that Vine City should have the same complaints of the city under-investing in the neighborhood. Now really is the time in a transitional neighborhood like that.
No need to try to be insulting. I am very knowledgeable about the process for imminent domain and the issues that face the Westside communities of Vine City and English Avenue, Bankhead, Grove Park and other surrounding neighborhoods.
The fact that you have stated that you have owned your property since 2010 and that it is secured, means that I am not speaking of you.
It seems that you are very un-knowledgeable about the fact that many properties in my area are owned by banks, investment firms, or people like you who are "waiting" for the market to rebound so that they can rent out a place or sell it for a profit. The latter two are the primary problematic owners of properties here (please know, I am heavily involved in my neighborhood's associations, including merchant associations, I know many of our investors personally who own apartment complexes or large swaths of rental homes, these are not the homes I am speaking of when it comes to imminent domain). Maybe you took some offense to my comments due to you being an owner of a vacant property, but that is not the case. If your property is secured and you are maintaining the façade of the property to standards, then you should take no offense. Also FWIW, I own a vacant property in my hometown, one I am holding due to me looking to move back there so I am very much for the property rights of owners who are responsible owners. Those who are not, I am more concerned about the property rights of the other residents and of the public safety especially of residents who live near and around unsecured, vacant properties.
But there is an epidemic in two of the primary neighborhoods that stand to be affected by the new stadium of property owners not securing their properties, of not maintaining facades, of these properties being bought and sold, sometimes 2-3 times in a 6 month period so that no code violation case can be processed effectively (FWIW, I am also very knowledgeable about the code violation process here in Atlanta, which is sorely in need of reform and lacks greatly compared to the area where I own in Ohio. In that locality, they do not give chances like they do here because blight is a considered a public safety risk. It is not seen as the same here in Atlanta or in Georgia in general where the rights of an irresponsible property owner trump the safety concerns of neighbors and the city at large).
In regards to the bold, lol, as that does not occur and if it does it is a 5-10 year process. We have database full of "condemned" properties that are sitting and have been sitting since before I moved to the neighborhood in 2007. There is a vacant home next to me that is "condemned" and it has been on the "In-Rem" list since 2011. I actually offered to buy the home because it is right next door and I was told that I could "buy the lien" but that it would not really be my property outright, so what is the point in that and FWIW, we still maintain the façade due to us not wanting to live next to a crappy looking house.
You also are not knowledgeable about the imminent domain process that is used in other parts of the country and which is a part of Georgia law under the Georgia Urban Redevelopment Act, which was passed in the 1940s. This act allows the local municipality to declare whole swaths or individual properties as a slum and demolish it for the public good. The owners DO NOT have to be compensated, nor the properties "bought" in the way that you think they would have to be. If you are a crappy homeowner and you have thousands of dollars worth of fines and violations, then the city can legally strip you of your property rights for nothing but the administrative cost to file the paperwork.
Also, I work in public contract management/procurement and have ordered and overseen compliance of demolishing over 200 structures here in Metro Atlanta, including many of the larger, more notorious public housing locations in Atlanta, so I know how much it cost to demolish structures as I perform cost estimation for each demolition prior to the start of construction. The house next to me, including asbestos abatement since it is a 1920s era home would be approximately $10,000. Apartment complexes vary depending on size and age, but I am sure that within Vine City and English Avenue, all of the demolitions of structures that actually are condemned would be less than $2 million because there aren't many large condemned structures. An average sized 50 unit apartment complex is about $100K to demolish, including asbestos abatement. Just because they have a sticker on the door doesn't mean they are condemned, just that they have violations, even the house next to me, which is condemned, could be renovated for about $30-$50k but due to the area, not many people would be willing to invest such a huge sum of money into a house that will not net a profit in rent or sale at this time. FWIW, I would have had the home demolished for $10K and made the empty lot into an urban garden if I could have purchased it. Also FWIW, in Ohio, if I call them and they have a code violation property or empty lot and I inquire about buying it, they will do whatever they can to sell it to me under the condition that I cannot sell it myself for at least 6 months - I have bought properties this way there. They will gladly strip the current owner of his/her rights as property owner due to neglect of the structure or plot and the owner will get no compensation, the funds used for purchase will go toward back taxes or to pay the previous fines/violations. The same could easily be done here in Atlanta. There is no good reason to let blight continue if someone is willing to make a change.
Also, I think that you are looking at my comments from the point of view that I want some huge beautiful investment or development in the area. I do not. I only want sidewalks fixed and for serial code violators who have unsecured properties to have their properties taken via imminent domain and not compensated anything for those properties so in that way, what you said is right - I do not respect their rights as property owners. I also would like for the city to focus more on taking care of infrastructure issues like maintaining sidewalks and streets. Other issues in this area, we already are working with various departments to take care of. Contrary to what many of you may think, we are not afraid of "gangs" here and we frequently call police and have the cell phone numbers of our beat commander and many of the officers. We have some great officers in this area and I feel they are doing a wonderful job. I actually am about to write a commendation letter for an officer after I write this for a situation that occurred the other day where the officer was professional, friendly, and just did a great job with the situation at hand and I do this frequently when I encounter or even hear about the good cops in our area. Crime is continuously getting better over here and we have a lot of developments planned to help the least of us get some help with drug addiction and job training coming up within the next year or so. We also are finally getting a park in English Avenue, something that was spearheaded by local residents who contacted a national organization who, along with Park Pride are going to be breaking ground this summer. We are not just sitting around begging for money.
I actually like the housing stock in my area and am saddened at the state of many of the more beautiful 20s era bungalows that are sitting and rotting away. I would rather those structures get rehabbed versus demoed, but that probably will not happen since so many owners are "waiting" not realizing that they are one of the primary factors in the delay it is taking to get more revitalization going. I also like my neighbors, many of whom are long term residents who have been fighting the good fight for a long time, like those that are the complainants in this law suit (who I also personally know). We do not want to be the next VA Hi or anything like that. Just to have nice streets and sidewalks, not having parking lots all around the area (which increases our crime rates in regards to car break ins), to have some nice green spaces in the area, and to not have absentee, irresponsible property owners put our lives in risk due to them not taking care of their properties.
FWIW, interesting that you brought up Sunset. There was a large fire on Sunset recently (within the past week) in an abandoned, open and vacant structure, that put our Atlanta Firefighters (great guys at our station also on the Westside, we have some wonderful public servants in our area) at risk along with residents on the street. Allowing property owners to continually be lacking in their responsibilities contributed to that fire and others that have happened in the neighborhoods this past winter, when this usually occurs pretty regularly due to homeless and other vagrants getting into these structures and starting fires to keep warm.
Also, in regards to rents in the area - Vine City is near the AUC and there are always student renters that can be had over here so I don't think you can compare it to Pittsburgh. I was a CAU student and stayed in many a duplex in Vine City in my day and in boarding houses that are still legal due to being boarding houses prior to legislation being passed to ban their growth. One doesn't need $1500 in rent to make a profit (part of my job also deals in property management - I am in "housing" which covers the gamut of the real estate industry) if one invest in the right kind of rental properties. I work and have worked primarily for private property management companies and we usually never have rents in the $1500 range here in Atlanta as we specialize in low income housing and some subsidized housing (which depending on the location can actually be near the $1500 mark). There is a demand here for quality, low income housing (in the $500-$800 rental range). No one in their right mind will pay $1500 a month to live in Pittsburgh IMO and this is based on industry knowledge. They can get a better looking, bigger home in West End for less than that and be in a safer neighborhood. They can get an apartment for less than that in many nicer parts of the city. And FWIW, one of the owners on my street owns a 4-plex property and she always has renters. I know her renters (I keep her number in case there are any issues as well) and they are good, employed people, who just don't make a lot of money.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 04-09-2014 at 07:08 AM..
Apartment complexes vary depending on size and age, but I am sure that within Vine City and English Avenue, all of the demolitions of structures that actually are condemned would be less than $2 million because there aren't many large condemned structures.
Yeah, that's fine. I thought you were talking about tearing down all of Vine City, Mechanicsville or Pittsburgh, for example. There's a lot of value in there for homes that are kept up even marginally and secured, vacant or not, and acquiring them all wouldn't be very cheap. It also wouldn't make any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
I actually like the housing stock in my area and am saddened at the state of many of the more beautiful 20s era bungalows that are sitting and rotting away. I would rather those structures get rehabbed versus demoed, but that probably will not happen since so many owners are "waiting" not realizing that they are one of the primary factors in the delay it is taking to get more revitalization going.
I agree. For Sunset Ave in Vine City and for most of Adair Park, it's a real shame when a beautiful home is lost. For the Pittsburgh neighborhood, ironically, the nicest homes actually came about as a result of demoing older houses since they weren't originally built to the same standard back in the 20s as Adair Park and some other neighborhoods. I see it going that way in Pittsburgh over time, and the housing stock will improve.
There is one thing you missed about Pittsburgh: It has pretty good schools. So it's really popular with families. The unfortunate thing is: those are currently low-income families for the most part who miss rent payments and cause some damage because kids are kids. Until that changes, it'll be a real struggle for landlords.
Last edited by netdragon; 04-11-2014 at 12:40 AM..
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