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Old 11-06-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,950,063 times
Reputation: 5703

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Are you seriously asking that question?

You don't think having a bike in a lane of traffic creates problems for drivers? You don't think it slows things down which creates a need for drivers to pass these 10 mph bikes? Do you think this makes things more safe or less safe when you queue up a line of cars to try to pass a bike? This isn't a hard concept to understand and I'm frankly shocked that you need that explained to you... well maybe not that shocked.
They can wait to safely pass the cyclist, who has every right to use the lane.
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Old 11-06-2014, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Blackistan
3,006 posts, read 2,641,592 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I'm all for protecting cyclists and encouraging bike riding.

But I don't get the idea of spending 15% of the bond issue on bicycling infrastructure. These folks still make up 1% or less of commuters.
1.1% in 2009. That's probably higher now, but I can't find the figure.

Build it and they will come. More people will feel safer if the infrastructure is in place to ensure they can ride safely. Induced demand works for automobiles, as Atlanta has proven. It can work for bikes.

And, really, if it's too great an inconvenience to slow down and use caution to pass a cyclist, you've got a problem. It's not hard. Damn.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,950,063 times
Reputation: 5703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pemgin View Post
1.1% in 2009. That's probably higher now, but I can't find the figure.

Build it and they will come. More people will feel safer if the infrastructure is in place to ensure they can ride safely. Induced demand works for automobiles, as Atlanta has proven. It can work for bikes.

And, really, if it's too great an inconvenience to slow down and use caution to pass a cyclist, you've got a problem. It's not hard. Damn.
And growing.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:19 AM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
1,478 posts, read 1,731,275 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I'm all for protecting cyclists and encouraging bike riding.

But I don't get the idea of spending 15% of the bond issue on bicycling infrastructure. These folks still make up 1% or less of commuters.
Again, the reason only 1% of commuters are on a bike is A DIRECT RESULT OF the lack of spending on bicycle infrastructure. When all sources of funding are 90% directed towards auto-based infrastructure, then that will be what the majority of people use. If 90% of taxes were directed towards public transportation infrastructure, you would see a much more highly developed system that goes to more places, resulting in a much higher percentage of people using it. Same goes for bikes - direct 90% of our tax money towards cycling infrastructure, and you'd see a much higher proportion of people commuting using that mode of transportation. In an ideal world, we would divide our taxes up to support different modes of transportation, not just the car, and we would see a much more diverse group of commuting in Atlanta. This gives people OPTIONS!

When you think about it a little more critically, the argument that we should not spend 15% of money on 1% of commuters just keeps us stuck in the same 1-mode transportation reality that has created a sprawled out, traffic jammed, obese city. If we want to change that, we have to more evenly distribute our moneys to all forms of transportation, not just 1.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:42 AM
 
219 posts, read 271,339 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
And growing.
There are a good number more in the past year on my route 5th through Midtown. I was in a line of bikes at 5th & Peachtree yesterday that was longer than the line of cars.

I agree we need more alternative forms of transportation as we increase density in Midtown. I think it is very simple logic, maybe one of those older, wiser, gentlemen can explain the fallacies in my statements. As we build density in the city, we either need to add more lanes for more cars, or provide other mechanisms for traveling from point to point within your community. I'm not sure why we should not dedicate more to building bike infrastructure, especially when there has been so little dedicated to it, if ever.

I've given lots of thought as to why most drivers are obsessed with their hatred of bikers. First, when you are in a bike, you have to trust the drivers around you with your life, so if they make a poor, selfish, decision it puts the biker in harms way, not the driver. The biker has to be much more defensive and takes things much more personally, thus seemingly "arrogant" response. But I would also note that drivers are much more likely to come in contact and have "road-rage" towards other drivers, much more so than bikes. Why is there not a hatred towards other drivers who "blow through red lights" or drive after having too many drinks? These people are actually KILLING other people with their actions. A bicyclist "blows through a stop sign" is putting themselves in much more harm's way than really affecting anyone else. Yet the vitriol spewed in their general direction seems as if they are killing babies.

So again, I'm very curious, obviously you encounter other bad drivers much more frequently than you encounter a bicyclist that is slowing you down. And the bad drivers are certainly much more likely to cause physical damage to your vehicle or bodily harm to you or your loved ones. So what is it? Wouldn't you rather everyone bike more so you reduce the chances of bodily harm to your person? Are cyclists just an easy target for your selfish, me-first, first, screw my community attitude?

Why don't people see cyclists and say to themselves 'that person is benefiting the community by prioritizing their community over their personal convenience?' Or is that the issue? Many Americans see it as "communism" when the individual puts his/her community over their own personal interests. Cars are certainly the embodiment of our personal freedoms in America, and maybe, who knows, the possible "limitation" of those personal freedoms is threatening to them, as they value their convenience and 'freedom' much more over building a sustainable community. God forbid we reduce a 4 lane road to 3 lanes, again, you'd be better off killing puppies with a rusted pipe. But I think the underlying themes of this board could really be succinctly examined in the above statement. If people would just admit their reluctance to prioritize community over personal freedoms, and examine the reasons why, maybe some people could see the other side of the issue.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:05 AM
 
32,038 posts, read 36,926,328 times
Reputation: 13332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pemgin View Post
1.1% in 2009. That's probably higher now, but I can't find the figure.
The American Community Survey 2008–2012 pegs it at .8%, but I wouldn't quibble with the idea that maybe 1% of workers bike to work. In Atlanta that would translate to around 2,000 people.

That's not negligible and these folks certainly deserve respect from motorists and safe streets to ride on.

But devoting 15% of our infrastructure bond to bike lanes?

I can't support that. The other 99% of us have some needs, too.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:18 AM
 
32,038 posts, read 36,926,328 times
Reputation: 13332
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripTychTwo View Post
Why don't people see cyclists and say to themselves 'that person is benefiting the community by prioritizing their community over their personal convenience?' Or is that the issue? Many Americans see it as "communism" when the individual puts his/her community over their own personal interests. Cars are certainly the embodiment of our personal freedoms in America, and maybe, who knows, the possible "limitation" of those personal freedoms is threatening to them, as they value their convenience and 'freedom' much more over building a sustainable community. God forbid we reduce a 4 lane road to 3 lanes, again, you'd be better off killing puppies with a rusted pipe. But I think the underlying themes of this board could really be succinctly examined in the above statement. If people would just admit their reluctance to prioritize community over personal freedoms, and examine the reasons why, maybe some people could see the other side of the issue.
Before we get too noble about it, remember that the city of Atlanta still has areas of concentrated poverty, disinvestment and crime. If you attend community meetings, I guarantee that you will hear some sentiment that there are greater needs than providing bike lanes for recently-arrived yuppies to cruise around on.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,186 posts, read 34,896,419 times
Reputation: 15154
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripTychTwo View Post
Why is there not a hatred towards other drivers who "blow through red lights" or drive after having too many drinks? These people are actually KILLING other people with their actions.
There is. Ever heard of Mothers Against Drunk Driving?

MADD - Mothers Against Drunk Driving

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripTychTwo View Post
If people would just admit their reluctance to prioritize community over personal freedoms, and examine the reasons why, maybe some people could see the other side of the issue.
But if you're square in the middle of a traffic lane, aren't you prioritizing your own personal freedom (the right to ride your bicycle) over everyone else on the road?

I ride a bike and I find some of the things people have mentioned about bikers to be annoying. In fact, I will sometimes complain about cyclists when I'm driving and then get on my bike and do the same exact things (ride on sidewalks, blow through stop signs). The one thing I don't do is ride in the middle of the lane and prevent cars from passing. It's technically within my right to do so, but it's sort of a jerkish thing to do, imo.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,743 posts, read 13,442,211 times
Reputation: 7184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkeating View Post
That hasn't been my experience with bike commuters at all. I think the problem is that when you're driving a car, minor inconveniences, like having to slow down for five seconds to pass a bike, seem a lot worse than they are. Personally I would like to live in a city with more bike commuters. I do fear for the safety of the few I see on DeKalb Ave during rush hour, though.
What I see are bikers riding between cars at stops, riding through red lights instead of waiting for green lights, driving between cars and the curb, etc.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,186 posts, read 34,896,419 times
Reputation: 15154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
What I see are bikers riding between cars at stops, riding through red lights instead of waiting for green lights, driving between cars and the curb, etc.
I do that all of the time. All the while I'm thinking...

(a) Who's going to stop me and

(b) It's not going to hurt anybody so what's the big deal?
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