APS Educators Found Guilty and sent to Jail! Really? (live, educational)

[bu2]

Every single one of these who is going to jail is doing so because they refused to take responsibility for their actions. They've had many chances over the last 4 years to come clean, but keep refusing.

And there are a lot of people (you on this board aren't alone) who are enablers who think that's ok.

[Cameron H]

Originally Posted by bu2

I find it astounding and disturbing that so many people make excuses for these people.

It's mind-boggling. Hey, you want to have a conversation about poverty, social marginalization, absentee parents, obstructive teacher's unions, a corrupt and/or inept system, bad politics, unintended consequences of standards, etc.? It's a wicked problem and all those issues deserve attention.

There's no excuse, justification or rationalization for what these "educators" (lol) did. There's no excuse, justification or rationalization for their refusal to take responsibility for what they did. I like teachers, as a generalized group, but I feel no compulsion to defend these people. I like cops, but I feel no compulsion to defend one who shoots an unarmed man in the back and then tries to cover it up. Get real.

[bhammaster]

Originally Posted by bu2

I find it astounding and disturbing that so many people make excuses for these people. If you can read that creative loafing article I posted and still have sympathy for the "educators" who weren't in the classroom (7 of the 11 convicted) I don't know what to say.

Beverly Hall and her underlings screwed the children over.

They screwed them over how?

You think the standardized test teaching is what is going to help these kids succeeded?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

They screwed them over how?

You think the standardized test teaching is what is going to help these kids succeeded?

I and others have explained that several times in this thread. Read the thread and the links.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by Larry X

So the judge sentence these educators to years in prison because he's but hurt they didn't take a plea, real mature.

that is the way it works

you waste the courts time and taxpayer's money fighting something you're guilty of, you get bent over when you refuse to help yourself at every corner.

fess up, and there is leniency.

bottom line is, none of this crap is controversial if the dumb people took the deal. period. we wouldn't be having this discussion. they would all be sleeping at home tonight and everyone wouldn't be freaking out.

these people have a history of being incredibly dumb, so I'm not that surprised.

people say these folks need to be back in the classroom. really, you want your kids taught by them?

[jeoff]

The indignation that the judge showed was laughable. Throw the book at them if you want, but pretending that this is the worst of it, is almost as unproductive as the cheating!--"the worst of it" is perfectly legal, demanded by the public, and baked into the system.

The system (the public) "demands.":
1) High achievement for all students, or at least equal achievement across demographic lines.
2) High graduation rates, or at least equal graduation rates across demographic lines.
4) Increased teacher accountability.
3) Very little parental accountability (got your kid to school? Congratulations! you did your job!, But, what if you don't discipline your child or teach your child to respect others?--that's ok--"respect" is a one way street--your child is royalty! If you don't read to your child?--that's ok, don't waste your time! You fight with your child's teacher, when your child makes a mistake?--that's ok--they're just teachers--you pay their salaries! Besides, your child will be perfectly fine with you encouraging their bad behavior!).
4) Very little student accountability (disruptive and disrespectful kids will remain in class, kids that do minimal work and have minimal levels of achievement will receive passing grades--In fact, we will beg the most disruptive and disinterested kids to stay in school so we can secure funding to keep our school open).
5) Oh, and teachers should be aware of limitations of a child's environment, so instead of giving more work to kids from difficult backgrounds--so they can catch up, you should give less.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Cameron H

It's mind-boggling. Hey, you want to have a conversation about poverty, social marginalization, absentee parents, obstructive teacher's unions, a corrupt and/or inept system, bad politics, unintended consequences of standards, etc.? It's a wicked problem and all those issues deserve attention.

There's no excuse, justification or rationalization for what these "educators" (lol) did. There's no excuse, justification or rationalization for their refusal to take responsibility for what they did. I like teachers, as a generalized group, but I feel no compulsion to defend these people. I like cops, but I feel no compulsion to defend one who shoots an unarmed man in the back and then tries to cover it up. Get real.

This. All of the issues that Cameron mentioned were not on trial here.

[DONNIEANDDONNA417]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

They screwed them over how?

You think the standardized test teaching is what is going to help these kids succeeded?

agreed..and one stupid test (CRCT) would determine whether your child went to the next grade or not. This was not about bonuses...this was about putting much needed funding into the public school systems. So you have one test and if a certain percentage of students did not past then the funding is cut. This is what these teachers were faced up against. I don't think this was criminal I think these teachers genuinely cared about the education of these children. Being a teacher is hard hard work and you have to want to do it from the heart. Ok cheating is wrong but it does NOT warrant prison time. I thought those plea deals where bullish and Im glad some teachers did not accept it.

Bottom line these teachers are not criminals...if you want to punish them take away there ability to teach again but don't send them to prison over some bullish.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by jeoff

The indignation that the judge showed was laughable. Throw the book at them if you want, but pretending that this is the worst of it, is almost as unproductive as the cheating!--"the worst of it" is perfectly legal, demanded by the public, and baked into the system.

The system (the public) "demands.":
1) High achievement for all students, or at least equal achievement across demographic lines.
2) High graduation rates, or at least equal graduation rates across demographic lines.
4) Increased teacher accountability.
3) Very little parental accountability (got your kid to school? Congratulations! you did your job!, But, what if you don't discipline your child or teach your child to respect others?--that's ok--"respect" is a one way street--your child is royalty! If you don't read to your child?--that's ok, don't waste your time! You fight with your child's teacher, when your child makes a mistake?--that's ok--they're just teachers--you pay their salaries! Besides, your child will be perfectly fine with you encouraging their bad behavior!).
4) Very little student accountability (disruptive and disrespectful kids will remain in class, kids that do minimal work and have minimal levels of achievement will receive passing grades--In fact, we will beg the most disruptive and disinterested kids to stay in school so we can secure funding to keep our school open).
5) Oh, and teachers should be aware of limitations of a child's environment, so instead of giving more work to kids from difficult backgrounds--so they can catch up, you should give less.

This. A thousand times work. Most people simply do not understand just how hard it is to be a teacher nowadays, in part because of the reasons you mentioned.

We live in a culture that loves to glorify children and demonize teachers. And yet we pretend to be baffled when the teacher turnover is so high. "Oh mah gawd! Whaa cain't we find good teachers no more?!" Because, dumb***es, you're scaring them all away. So then you create the environment for situations such as these, where any teacher whose moral compass is less than near-perfect is liable to stray into the land of cheating. Don't get me wrong, these teachers deserve punishment, but you're kidding yourselves if you think these sentences are going to solve the root problem. Because they won't.

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

that is the way it works

you waste the courts time and taxpayer's money fighting something you're guilty of, you get bent over when you refuse to help yourself at every corner.

fess up, and there is leniency.

bottom line is, none of this crap is controversial if the dumb people took the deal. period. we wouldn't be having this discussion. they would all be sleeping at home tonight and everyone wouldn't be freaking out.

these people have a history of being incredibly dumb, so I'm not that surprised.

people say these folks need to be back in the classroom. really, you want your kids taught by them?

The underlined comment is a real head-scratcher to me. Until that happened, I had a lot of sympathy for the convicted teachers. But for those who didn't take the deal, which was most of them, now I have mixed feelings. Yes the sentences were awfully harsh and seemed to be more the product of an angry judge than anything else, but wow, their refusal reeked of hubris.

[Mutiny77]

This was only about the money, not ruining kids' chances of educational success. A test doesn't guarantee that.