GDOT Atlanta to Charlotte High-Speed Rail Draft Released (Gainesville, Douglas: 2015, university)

[fourthwarden]

So, this actually came out all the way back in October, but I never realized it'd been released, and didn't see any discussion on it, so here's a sparkly new thread about it!

Link to the October 2015 PDF


At a cursory glance, I notice a few things:

The one that jabbed me the most is that the MMPT is written as the 'Georgia MMPT', as opposed to the 'Atlanta MMPT'. Dunno who's decision it was, and i'm most likely overblowing it, but I don't like the change.

Next, that none of the Atlanta approaches include using the Eastside BeltLine. The closest you get, is following either the existing CSX or NS approaches into the city.

Finally, that it's not too expensive. The highest price of the considered alternative, was only $15 Billion. The highest cost for any Georgia section, specifically, was estimated as $4.3 Billion.

I'll keep reading and digging, but it almost looks like an actual plan to get something done. Almost. We're still not due to be done with the Tier-II study and have an actual decision until 2017, but eh, progress I guess. Maybe by then, we'll have some better local transit on the way?




PDF Link

[Born 2 Roll]

Good find, fourthwarden.

I like the route proposed to operate along the current right-of-way of the Amtrak Southern Crescent because that route would serve such locations as Clemson, South Carolina and the campus of Clemson University as well as other locations like (the politically powerful Northeast Georgia city of) Gainesville, Downtown Greenville, Downtown Spartanburg, etc.

I also like that the south end of the line is proposed to be at the world-leading Atlanta Airport and that the line will connect the ATL Airport to other major transportation assets like Greenville-Spartanburg International Airport and Charlotte-Douglas International Airport on the way to connecting with the DC-Philly-NYC-Boston Northeast Corridor by way of Greensboro, Raleigh and Richmond.

Also, the decision to change the name of the proposed multimodal transportation terminal in Downtown Atlanta to the "Georgia MMPT" was likely a decision made by the Georgia Department of Transportation to generate more support from Georgia state legislators to fund the project. Calling the project "Georgia MMPT" is likely a public relations attempt from GDOT to generate support for the project from parts of the state outside of Atlanta where the people may not necessarily feel that the project is intended for their benefit.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Good find, fourthwarden.

I like the route proposed to operate along the current right-of-way of the Amtrak Southern Crescent because that route would serve such locations as Clemson, South Carolina and the campus of Clemson University as well as other locations like (the politically powerful Northeast Georgia city of) Gainesville, Downtown Greenville, Downtown Spartanburg, etc.

I also like that the south end of the line is proposed to be at the world-leading Atlanta Airport and that the line will connect the ATL Airport to other major transportation assets like Greenville-Spartanburg International Airport and Charlotte-Douglas International Airport on the way to connecting with the DC-Philly-NYC-Boston Northeast Corridor by way of Greensboro, Raleigh and Richmond.

Also, the decision to change the name of the proposed multimodal transportation terminal in Downtown Atlanta to the "Georgia MMPT" was likely a decision made by the Georgia Department of Transportation to generate more support from Georgia state legislators to fund the project. Calling the project "Georgia MMPT" is likely a public relations attempt from GDOT to generate support for the project from parts of the state outside of Atlanta where the people may not necessarily feel that the project is intended for their benefit.

I see no issue calling it Georgia MMPT, as it would be the most important station in the state and it is in the state capital.

[0nyxStation]

Connect Atlanta to Florida first.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by 0nyxStation

Connect Atlanta to Florida first.

Charlotte is closer to connecting to the DC and the NEC. While Florida would make sense from tourism, it would require a lot more funding for infrastructure that the state leaders may not be willing to fund.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Good find, fourthwarden.

I like the route proposed to operate along the current right-of-way of the Amtrak Southern Crescent because that route would serve such locations as Clemson, South Carolina and the campus of Clemson University as well as other locations like (the politically powerful Northeast Georgia city of) Gainesville, Downtown Greenville, Downtown Spartanburg, etc.

I also like that the south end of the line is proposed to be at the world-leading Atlanta Airport and that the line will connect the ATL Airport to other major transportation assets like Greenville-Spartanburg International Airport and Charlotte-Douglas International Airport on the way to connecting with the DC-Philly-NYC-Boston Northeast Corridor by way of Greensboro, Raleigh and Richmond.

Also, the decision to change the name of the proposed multimodal transportation terminal in Downtown Atlanta to the "Georgia MMPT" was likely a decision made by the Georgia Department of Transportation to generate more support from Georgia state legislators to fund the project. Calling the project "Georgia MMPT" is likely a public relations attempt from GDOT to generate support for the project from parts of the state outside of Atlanta where the people may not necessarily feel that the project is intended for their benefit.

Athens could add a lot of ridership. It will be interesting to see if they try to combine the Crescent with the Athens greenfield.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by bu2

Athens could add a lot of ridership. It will be interesting to see if they try to combine the Crescent with the Athens greenfield.

I agree, I think Athens should be a stop, or connected somehow if another route is chosen.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by CCATL

I agree, I think Athens should be a stop, or connected somehow if another route is chosen.

I think a separate route can connect Athens. The "brain train" has had a lot of discussion and would have more stops than a high-speed-rail route should have. The route through Athens also goes out of the ways a lot and misses a lot of other critical stops.

We don't need one rail line to go everywhere. We need multiple. Heck, there is a very good chance we can have the "brain train" up long before HSR.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Good find, fourthwarden.

I like the route proposed to operate along the current right-of-way of the Amtrak Southern Crescent because that route would serve such locations as Clemson, South Carolina and the campus of Clemson University as well as other locations like (the politically powerful Northeast Georgia city of) Gainesville, Downtown Greenville, Downtown Spartanburg, etc.

That's what I thought at fist, also, but it actually ranked pretty low. The Greenfield line, at 220 mph top speed, had the highest estimated ridership as well as the highest estimated annual revenue (page 54). It has a higher top speed than either the Southern Crescent or the I-85 alignments, thus giving it the shortest travel time of the whole batch (page 13). It is the second least curvy route, and is within 210,000 people of the Crecent's population within 30 miles of the stations (page 14). It's also 3rd in number of jobs within 10 miles of its stations (page 15).

Overall, it does the best, performance wise, of any of the 6 routes in the trade studies (page 19). If you look at the travel times for the route, it takes ~3:40 to get from Atlanta to Charlotte (according to Google Maps), and the Greenfield route only take 2:15 to go from end to end. I-85 is the only one that is under 3:40, and that's only by 35 min.

All of that said, Greenfield is the third most expensive route. It costs $8.5 Billion for its 220 mph version. Compared to the I-85 220 mph and 125 mph versions, which cost $15.3 Billion and $13.3 Billion respectively, it's a deal, but the Southern Crescent 110 mph option only costs $2.3 Billion.

I have a sinking feeling that some penny-pinching politicians will look at the costs, and decide to go with the option that's half as fast, to save money, sacrificing useful service for... I dunno, a few more interstate interchanges?

I also like that the south end of the line is proposed to be at the world-leading Atlanta Airport and that the line will connect the ATL Airport to other major transportation assets like Greenville-Spartanburg International Airport and Charlotte-Douglas International Airport on the way to connecting with the DC-Philly-NYC-Boston Northeast Corridor by way of Greensboro, Raleigh and Richmond.

I don't know how to feel about the airport connection. On one hand, it does provide a seamless, and contiguous ride for anyone needing to get to the airport from beyond the perimeter. On the other hand, it is somewhat redundant to MARTA rail service. The proposed schedules only show it taking ~6 minutes to get from the MMPT to Hartsfield-Jackson, 10 min shorter than a Red or Gold Line train.

Also, the decision to change the name of the proposed multimodal transportation terminal in Downtown Atlanta to the "Georgia MMPT" was likely a decision made by the Georgia Department of Transportation to generate more support from Georgia state legislators to fund the project. Calling the project "Georgia MMPT" is likely a public relations attempt from GDOT to generate support for the project from parts of the state outside of Atlanta where the people may not necessarily feel that the project is intended for their benefit.

No doubt it was a political move. I'm just really tired of the implications that makes. Can't possibly build something good for the state, because it's got the Atlanta name on it. How dare a station bare the name of the city it's in, let alone the state capitol.

Bah.

Maybe it'll get switched back by the time it gets built (if ever).

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I think a separate route can connect Athens. The "brain train" has had a lot of discussion and would have more stops than a high-speed-rail route should have. The route through Athens also goes out of the ways a lot and misses a lot of other critical stops.

We don't need one rail line to go everywhere. We need multiple. Heck, there is a very good chance we can have the "brain train" up long before HSR.

Gainesville is critical? Athens is not "out of the way."