Would Georgia ever elect an openly gay Senator/congressman? (Atlanta: move, best)

[Clayton white guy]

In reality EVERYBODY is cast in shades of gray on the continuum. There (as other posters have pointed out) are different strands of "conservatism v/s liberalness" as I have explained to my students:

Fiscal Conservative- money matters (usually based around less spending and taxation)

Social Conservative- Social issues (Traditional Judeo-Christian values)

Military Conservative- Strong Military (Doing everything possible to build an invincible military)

Fiscal Liberal- money matters (usually based around increased government spending for social programs and therefore increased taxation to pay for it.)

Social Liberal- Social issues (Deviation from traditional values)

Military Liberal- Bare bones military (Almost like they say, "I'd rather spend my money on social programs")

Most folks I know fall in different places on the continuum on different issues; few are 100% either liberal or conservative. Myself, for instance, might score 100% on "social conservative", but would score MUCH LOWER on "fiscal conservative". As many of you may have also noticed that some "strands" may be in direct conflict with one another. (Being a fiscal conservative and a defense conservative at the same time will lead to quite a juxtaposition when you consider the enormous costs of a strong military.) If you are curious, I consider myself a "conservative leaning independent" since BOTH major parties give me a headache and heartburn.

[jeoff]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i think we're using different definitions of the word 'conservative'.

So far on this thread, being older and conservative has been defined as being part of bitter hate-filled generation that should just die, while you generously defined it as being ignorant. I define being conservative as taking a cautious approach to change. Sure, conservatives can be hate-filled and ignorant, but it's not like being "liberal" is some sort of vaccine against being hate-filled and ignorant.

[Hokiehaven]

If you're just looking at something like the Governor's race though, the state is moving every four years in the way of Democrats, 2014, Deal won by a little over 200,000 votes, but the victory in 2010 was by like 250,000, so perhaps in 10-20 years as the demographic changes continue to happen, clearly more people are moving in-town and development is ramping up, you'll see it get even closer. Prior to that it was even further apart, so it is changing.

Of course, statewide is still going to be heavily favored Republican by the gerrymandering, but if it closes the gap more in the next one or two Governor's races I bet you'll see Democrats start spending money more aggressively here.

Though I wouldn't expect the question posed unless it's a house seat in ATL.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Woe there. I don't find that my generation is bitter and hate filled at all. Sure, some members of my generation are, but some members of the younger generations are as well. All you've got to do to see that is to read the numerous bitter and hate filled posts in this forum.

Agreed.

Personally I think I've become less judgmental with age.

Life tends to teach you (if you are paying attention) that there are usually many subtleties and shades to things, and that our initial ideas may well be wrong. It becomes easier to reexamine yourself and to change your mind.

You've also seen your failures as well as your successes.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by jeoff

I define being conservative as taking a cautious approach to change. Sure, conservatives can be hate-filled and ignorant, but it's not like being "liberal" is some sort of vaccine against being hate-filled and ignorant.

Originally Posted by jeoff

Becoming more conservative in old age does not have to be the result of ignorance or mean-spiritedness, but a wisdom that comes with experience.

Older people have also seen that all change is not good--good intentions often yield terrible results, and it is easier to destroy than build. When you are young you want to change the world , as you get older you realize that it is a miracle that we have not blown ourselves up.

What you're not mentioning is what is conservative / liberal evolves with time and isn't static, especially with social conservatives... but not limited to.

By the time a generation gets older they have already changed/made the mark in the world in a way they wanted to in some form. They had their years as a dominant political force, so to the individual they are either at odds with their own generations norms or want to change with the younger generations in their old age.

A good issue to consider, because we are in the mist of it, is pretty much any topic related to gay rights.

It is still an on-going thing, but it is much more silent topic than it was in the 90s.

It is no longer politically viable for conservatives to go after gay rights as frequently. It is more common for niche audiences and smaller drawn districts (ie. representative districts in highly old, conservative areas)

So by the time millennials are in their '60s gay rights won't be as a huge issue. The momentum for change has already occurred. However, conservative millenials when they are 60 probably won't be taking up a huge anti-gay marriage message as a part of their conservative values. The anti-gay message is already in the process of going away. Many politicians don't want to mention it. They depend on people who are still anti-gay, but the votes needed are now more numerous in favor of people being who they are. As this platforms and others change over time, millenials will see less to resist in voting for a conservative party. It doesn't mean their personal values completely change.

It isn't that older people have already seen not all change is good. It is that they have already made or negotiated the changes most of their generation demanded by their old age. The generations that opposed them have already gone and what is a conservative value has changed. It is then up to the next generations to take up values they see as more important.

I also think there is a fiscal conservative streak, outside medicare and social security (which is huge), amongst older adults is because they won't see the benefits as much.

Why should someone that is 70 want to be taxed more to see heavy spending on high speed rail? It will likely be those that are 20 that would ever see it really fully realized (if funding started now). With limited income, they are more concerned about the existing social program that is due to them stays solvent, while they don't need to commute and depend on transportation networks personally as much. That is what impacts them. Millenials will be the same way later in life.

With this said... many conservatives are older and aren't taking a cautious approach to change, they are outright resisting it. That isn't necessarily mean it is always a good or bad thing. This is why -some- conservative arguments become nonsensical at points and they lash out at facts and the press, but there is real emotion and feelings there and they are just resisting the change.

Now what I haven't addressed is minorities... Minorities legitimately might stick with more progressive arguments longer in life when it is something that affects them personally. However, as stated above this is one way they are at odds with the average values of their generation.

It also feeds them reasons to have more on-going problems with conservative platforms.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by jeoff

Becoming more conservative in old age does not have to be the result of ignorance or mean-spiritedness, but a wisdom that comes with experience.

Older people have also seen that all change is not good--good intentions often yield terrible results, and it is easier to destroy than build. When you are young you want to change the world , as you get older you realize that it is a miracle that we have not blown ourselves up.

This is somewhat irrelevant because the standard for what's conservative continues to shift leftward.

A conservative from the 60's would probably think a conservative today is on the far left.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

there is some argument to be made that middle aged people are more likely to be fiscally conservative. however, the reason older people are more socially conservative is because they aren't continuing their education. if you're a baby boomer, you haven't been in school since the 70s. science has discovered a lot about our world and our bodies since then that contradicts a lot of what people used to believe. younger people are still in school, so they know this, but older people who were very well educated at the time they graduated are simply ignorant of a lot of this stuff, so things like climate change and transgender people throw them for a loop, it's outside the scope of their understanding, and they find that threatening.

this isn't just an issue with older people. i graduated high school in 2008, and since then a lot of the stuff i learned in school has been debunked; yet a lot of my classmates refuse to believe that today's scientists are a better source of information than the biology class taught by the lacrosse coach in 10th grade.

the biggest issue is that we make education a one-and-done prospect for everyone. once you get your degree, you're smart forever and don't need to continue learning. not only does this give some people a false sense of superiority (how many know-it-all PhDs have you met?), but it puts older people at an economic and social disadvantage as their education becomes less and less relevant in a rapidly-changing world. we really need to make education and job training available for people of all ages.

Good post bryantm3. It is a shame that so many folks stop their education when they graduate. There are so many ways to informally continue education - public television, reading quality mags like the Smithsonian and Scientific American, attending cultural events, etc.

And, yes, I think that middle aged folks are likely more fiscally conservative. I'm certainly more fiscally conservative than I was in my 20s, 30s and 40s. On the flip side, I'm far more socially liberal than at any time in my life.

[jeoff]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

This is somewhat irrelevant because the standard for what's conservative continues to shift leftward.

A conservative from the 60's would probably think a conservative today is on the far left.

It is relevent if you define conservatism as an approach, rather than a static set of defined values. Societies do not always move "leftward" becoming more free with more individual liberties, and a conservative approach is *sometimes* the best way to keep our existing liberties secure

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Agreed.

Personally I think I've become less judgmental with age.

Life tends to teach you (if you are paying attention) that there are usually many subtleties and shades to things, and that our initial ideas may well be wrong. It becomes easier to reexamine yourself and to change your mind.

You've also seen your failures as well as your successes.

Well said.

[jeoff]

It's just the state legislature, but it's also not in the the City of Atlanta or ITP, but in Gwinnett...

Sam Park Is the First Openly Gay Man Elected to the Georgia Legislature | Out Magazine