Still No Progress On Multimodal Terminal (Atlanta, Tucker: fit in, college, dangerous)

[arjay57]

I'm in favor of planning ahead but it seems like we'd want to get at least 2 or 3 commuter rail lines up and running and get some passenger counts before spending a gazillion dollars on an MMTP.

For the time being there's no reason such lines (if and when they actually come into existence) can't simply tie into our extensive heavy rail mass transit system.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm in favor of planning ahead but it seems like we'd want to get at least 2 or 3 commuter rail lines up and running and get some passenger counts before spending a gazillion dollars on an MMTP.

For the time being there's no reason such lines (if and when they actually come into existence) can't simply tie into our extensive heavy rail mass transit system.

Strongly disagree with that.

At least as far as the line I care about (to Vinings/Cumberland), the only way it would tie into MARTA would be via Five Points Station, so that might as well be the 'Grand Central Terminal' MMPT hub, right there. Need to start with that center point, then start building the line out.

The one exception might be for the Clayton line, which has an obvious interim drop off point at East Point Station. But eventually that line too needs to make its way up to the hub station.

And then as far as commuter rail thru Gwinnett stopping at Doraville or something, that's just ridiculous. Might as well just continue the heavy rail line out, save everyone the transfer and the whole headache.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Thanks for the insight yall. Do these new rules have any benefits for commuter rail in Atlanta? It sounds like there may be some cost savings in reduced weight.

That's pretty much it, but I wouldn't underplay the significance of that. There will likely still be a number of 'Buy American' laws, but now companies can just take their predesigned sets and open a facility here as a copy of one of their European factories.

It will save a bunch on development and design costs, which translates to cheaper train sets, which means more municipalities, companies, and Amtrak will be able to buy more trains for the same price, and replace aged fleets easier.

We'll have to see HOW MUCH it saves, but there's almost no question in my mind about it saving a not insignificant amount of money.

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm in favor of planning ahead but it seems like we'd want to get at least 2 or 3 commuter rail lines up and running and get some passenger counts before spending a gazillion dollars on an MMTP.

For the time being there's no reason such lines (if and when they actually come into existence) can't simply tie into our extensive heavy rail mass transit system.

I also disagree. There are a number of reasons why building the MMPT right now would make sense:

• It would provide a consolidated place for Greyhound and Megabus to connect with the larger transit network, as well as transfer with one another.
• It would provide a single place for the MARTA bus routes that converge on 5-Points to load and unload without being out in the weather.
• It would provide a single place for the GRTA bus routes that converge on 5-Points to load and unload without being out in the weather.
• It would provide a more dedicated terminal station for the I-20 BRT route.
• It would provide a potential station for the Northside BRT route to divert just a bit to join everything else without having to transfer first through Vine City.
• It would act as a terminal station for the Clayton Line to connect to the rest of the system, without forcing a transfer to the Red / Gold Line first.
• It could act as a place to integrate current Amtrak service with the rest of the network within Downtown.
• It could act as a large retail center for downtown, if we followed Denver's model and incorporated lots of shops similar to an airport concourse.

That's all in addition to the future uses. I think there's plenty of utility to getting it built now, let alone by the time it will actually be done with construction. Remember, it will take a few years to build. By then, Gwinnett and Cobb could very well be in the MARTA system, and commuter rail would be looking to the MMPT.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm in favor of planning ahead but it seems like we'd want to get at least 2 or 3 commuter rail lines up and running and get some passenger counts before spending a gazillion dollars on an MMTP.

For the time being there's no reason such lines (if and when they actually come into existence) can't simply tie into our extensive heavy rail mass transit system.

Phase 1 of an "mmpt" doesn't have to try to replicate Grand Central Terminal. For basic Clayton service, a single two-track platform will easily suffice with a few extra stairs/escalators/elevators to street level and a corridor into Five Points. Just because it won't have a large, bustling, concourse from day 1, doesn't make it any less an "mmpt."

[primaltech]

I think it would be so cool to move Atlanta's main Amtrak station to Five Points, for so many reasons. But among those reasons, perhaps that existing nice looking brick station in Brookwood could be converted to a Brookwood MARTA station.

It would be technically a commuter rail station, serving the 2 lines that go out to Gwinnett, but it could kind of function as the missing heavy rail station that Brookwood (and the north part of Midtown) never got. Because it would be higher frequency because of sharing 2 lines, and it would connect directly with the MARTA Peachtree ART line. Residents in that area could hop on it to go up to Lenox (where there would surely be a commuter rail stop), or perhaps to Emory (on the Lawrenceville line), or to Downtown, via the west side.

And people coming into town from Gwinnett, could get off there to access the Peachtree ART, into Midtown, or to their job at Piedmont Hospital, or Holeman and Finch, or whatever.

This region needs commuter rail that's basically more or less just like the heavy rail system. With more and better seats.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Phase 1 of an "mmpt" doesn't have to try to replicate Grand Central Terminal. For basic Clayton service, a single two-track platform will easily suffice with a few extra stairs/escalators/elevators to street level and a corridor into Five Points. Just because it won't have a large, bustling, concourse from day 1, doesn't make it any less an "mmpt."

Truth. Need to make sure that such a platform could either be easily integrated into the future station, or easily removed, though.

Originally Posted by primaltech

I think it would be so cool to move Atlanta's main Amtrak station to Five Points, for so many reasons. But among those reasons, perhaps that existing nice looking brick station in Brookwood could be converted to a Brookwood MARTA station.

It would be technically a commuter rail station, serving the 2 lines that go out to Gwinnett, but it could kind of function as the missing heavy rail station that Brookwood (and the north part of Midtown) never got. Because it would be higher frequency because of sharing 2 lines, and it would connect directly with the MARTA Peachtree ART line. Residents in that area could hop on it to go up to Lenox (where there would surely be a commuter rail stop), or perhaps to Emory (on the Lawrenceville line), or to Downtown, via the west side.

And people coming into town from Gwinnett, could get off there to access the Peachtree ART, into Midtown, or to their job at Piedmont Hospital, or Holeman and Finch, or whatever.

This region needs commuter rail that's basically more or less just like the heavy rail system. With more and better seats.

Keeping the Peachtree Station as one of the few 'intown' stations was something I had suggested on the Midtown Transportation Plan when they had open comments for suggesting projects.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I think it would be so cool to move Atlanta's main Amtrak station to Five Points, for so many reasons. But among those reasons, perhaps that existing nice looking brick station in Brookwood could be converted to a Brookwood MARTA station.

Unlikely, NS would love to get that station off its tracks. The ADA accessible route requires crossing the mainline, and it would be nearly impossible to put in crossing signals there under the station. The best we could hope for is a small railroad museum, possibly an annex of the Southeastern Railroad Museum.

It would be technically a commuter rail station, serving the 2 lines that go out to Gwinnett, but it could kind of function as the missing heavy rail station that Brookwood (and the north part of Midtown) never got. Because it would be higher frequency because of sharing 2 lines, and it would connect directly with the MARTA Peachtree ART line. Residents in that area could hop on it to go up to Lenox (where there would surely be a commuter rail stop), or perhaps to Emory (on the Lawrenceville line), or to Downtown, via the west side.

And people coming into town from Gwinnett, could get off there to access the Peachtree ART, into Midtown, or to their job at Piedmont Hospital, or Holeman and Finch, or whatever.

This region needs commuter rail that's basically more or less just like the heavy rail system. With more and better seats.

I'll leave the I-85 Gwinnett route alone, been there done that, but even IF the Lawrenceville Gwinnett route took the northern route around Armour, that still takes it nowhere near the current station.Most likely any route to Lawrenceville would go east along Hulsey yard and take the Parkline past East Lake up the east side of Emory before rejoining the line.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

• It would provide a potential station for the Northside BRT route to divert just a bit to join everything else without having to transfer first through Vine City.

You know, they could make a bus only lane that runs under where the dome is now (and won't be soon) and connects to the road that runs under phillips/cnn. Basically extend Magnum St w/ a bus only rd. It would be pretty short and a reliable way to reach the MMPT. A BRT line deserves that level of service

[primaltech]

If they're laying all new tracks in the corridor though (as they probably will have to), couldn't they have the passenger tracks from Emory to Armour, curve a sharp left to go down thru Atlantic Station? Or is any configuration of that just too sharp? Seems like it might be possible.

Anyway, I thought the whole point of the Atlanta Beltline was as a pedestrian corridor. Commuter rail running on the Beltline (either the Piedmont Hospital/northwest section or the Piedmont Park/northeast section), seems really dangerous, and very unlikely. So that's out.

And having the Emory/Tucker/Lawrenceville line run a parallel with a large section of the Blue/Green line into Downtown via Hulsey, is OK I guess, but it seems like huge wasted potential, and service duplication.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Phase 1 of an "mmpt" doesn't have to try to replicate Grand Central Terminal. For basic Clayton service, a single two-track platform will easily suffice with a few extra stairs/escalators/elevators to street level and a corridor into Five Points. Just because it won't have a large, bustling, concourse from day 1, doesn't make it any less an "mmpt."

Something like that would make sense if they get commuter rail out to Clayton some day.

However, it doesn't seem like that would call for the spending of gazillions of dollars at this point.