More Highway Widening (Atlanta, Norcross, Flowery Branch: 2014, construction, cost of)

[jsvh]

GDOT seeks input on widening I-85 in Gwinnett County

The Georgia Department of Transportation will hold two public information meetings to discuss the proposed Interstate 85 widening project in Gwinnett.

...

The length of both projects combined is approximately 24 miles. The proposed projects would widen and reconstruct approximately 12.7 miles of I-85 from north of Interstate 985 to just north of State Route 211 and 11.3 miles of I-85 from just north of State Route 211 to just north of U.S. 129.

The proposed project would use the existing right-of-way width to accommodate the widening. The typical section will be expanded from two lanes to three lanes in each direction. The existing grassed median along the 6.4-mile section of I-85 from Hamilton Mill Road/CR 134 to SR 211 will be replaced with a median barrier and 9-foot to 12-foot inside shoulders.

The project also proposes to replace four I-85 overpass bridges at Spout Springs Road, Flowery Branch Road, Jesse Cronic Road and SR 332. The project proposes to close the overpass bridges for replacement and detour traffic during construction.

Hasn't worked for the last 60 years, but GDOT still keeps trying to defy induced demand. So get ready for even more cars getting funneled down I-85.

Also like how the cost often gets left off when we talk about highway projects, yet is the central focus of transit projects. But from looking at comparable highway costs, this project is at least on the same scale at the downtown streetcar, if not many times more expensive especially considering that it requires multiple overpasses to be rebuilt. Yet, even once completed it will still have less capacity that the streetcar / light rail.

Here is hoping this is just a bit of the last winding down of building wider and wider freeways which only exacerbate the problem. We need to be focused on higher capacity /density transportation solutions.

[PKCorey]

Meh. It needed to be widening with all the trucking traffic in that area.

[flamadiddle]

What are they up to now, 24 lanes in each direction?

[ATLTJL]

What do you suggest?

Reducing it to one lane and adding a bike lane? Your solutions aren't working intown, why would they work on I-85?

[sedimenjerry]

Oh good grief. 85 is getting the same treatment as 75 and being widened all the way to SC over the next decade (this is actually old news). This isn't the widening of the section south of 316. This is the transitional area from suburban to exurban(especially past Hamilton Mill) to rural and has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with snubbing mass transit to intown areas. This is just the first step in upgrading the entire 85 corridor to SC. Atlanta could get a SEPTA size footprint in rail and this would still happen.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

What do you suggest?

Reducing it to one lane and adding a bike lane? Your solutions aren't working intown, why would they work on I-85?

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Hasn't worked for the last 60 years

So if tonight they narrowed I-85 through the Atlanta metro, back to the 2 lanes a side that it was originally, the traffic congestion and delays tomorrow would not be 10 times worse?

Of course it has worked. The widening over the last 60 years has worked, in that it's added lots of capacity, which has allowed all the heavy daily traffic (traffic, not congestion), and all the residential growth in Gwinnett. It's just that the growth catches up and then some, and they haven't widened it by much in a while. And/or there are other bottlenecks down the road in DeKalb (such as the interchange with I-285, etc.)

If they doubled the capacity of all the metro freeways tomorrow, the congestion would be reduced heavily. But that would lead to more residential and commercial growth, and also more people long-range commuting thru the area, and probably more out of state shipping trucks. So within probably 15-20 years, the congestion would be back to the same again. But we'd have tons more metro population and a larger economy.

Induced demand doesn't make widening not work, it makes it not work forever. If they regularly added more capacity enough to meet the increased demand, then that would be a good enough solution to eliminating congestion. But they can't do that, obviously.

But that doesn't mean that widening doesn't help, or can't be part of the solution. It just needs to only be part of the solution, which is the part that Georgia never seems to figure out. There needs to be better/more usage of the existing lane capacity via space efficiency via higher occupancy vehicles (especially transit). Also, there needs to be a commuter train system totally independent of the freeway system. Need options.

Originally Posted by flamadiddle

What are they up to now, 24 lanes in each direction?

I know bothering to read things is too much to ask of a Trump voter/ internet troll, but this is talking about widening a 2-lane section up in the rural north part of Gwinnett. To 3 lanes.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

This is the transitional area from suburban to exurban(especially past Hamilton Mill) to rural and has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with snubbing mass transit to intown areas. This is just the first step in upgrading the entire 85 corridor to SC. Atlanta could get a SEPTA size footprint in rail and this would still happen.

Exactly. Thank you.

Certain ITP snobbery types around here (who have probably never been to this area in question) apparently just look for any excuses to say something negative every day about OTP/suburbs, and the existence of roads/cars as a transportation system.

And Norcross doesn't even have a freaking train stop. Hamilton Mill and the I-985 corridor isn't exactly snubbing transit for roads, here. What are they supposed to connect the hypothetical transit alternative to?

[alco89]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

What do you suggest?

Reducing it to one lane and adding a bike lane?

Not gonna lie, I yell-laughed at this.

Seriously though, anyone who's EVER driven in from South Carolina on 85 knows that 2-lane section needs to be widened. At least in Gwinnett County.

[cwkimbro]

Sadly, the wrong person decided to post this trying to change the tone from the beginning.

There is more than enough through-traffic in the area to warrant this.

The long-term plan is to have it be 3 lanes (each direction) to the state border, partly in hopes this will be carried out in other respective states eventually.

This has been going on in the I-75 corridors for years.

This is a part of a long-range plan that is targeting having all of our interstates up to standards in 50 years when we are a much larger state