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Cobb and Gwinnett have good rec hockey leagues. And you can't get to South Forsyth from Cobb or Gwinnett! At least not easily.That's why Perimeter and Cobb-Galleria area are so much superior.
The North Point Mall Area is as far north as it could go and still be OK. Anything beyond that is not OK.
Ideally, a new hockey arena would go to:
Best Option A: Cumberland Mall Area/Near Battery
Best Option B: Perimeter Mall Area/North Springs Area
Best Option C: Lindbergh Center Area
Best Option D: Atlantic Station Area
Best Option E: Downtown Atlanta Area
It looks like the North Point Mall site potentially may be emerging as the leading (and possibly only) site that may be used to attempt to attract an NHL franchise back to the Atlanta market.
That because the lead developer behind the proposed arena at “The Gathering at South Forsyth” site reportedly potentially may be looking to back out of the project after last-minute changes made to the financial agreement by the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners…
Cobb and Gwinnett have good rec hockey leagues. And you can't get to South Forsyth from Cobb or Gwinnett! At least not easily. That's why Perimeter and Cobb-Galleria area are so much superior.
Not only do Cobb and Gwinnett counties have impressive youth and amateur recreational ice hockey leagues at facilities like the Atlanta Ice House in Marietta and the Atlanta IceForum in Duluth.
But the greater Georgia 400 corridor (North Fulton and Forsyth counties) also has impressive youth and amateur recreational ice hockey leagues at facilities like The Cooler in Alpharetta, The Ice in Cumming and Center Ice Arena in Sandy Springs.
The greater Georgia 400 North corridor appears to have emerged as both the geographic and demographic center of the youth and amateur recreational ice hockey scene in the Atlanta metropolitan region.
I'm still skeptical about North Point Mall. Alpharetta killed a development there a year or two ago for being too dense. Also they can't offer the same type of county incentive package that made Forsyth appealing to the car dealership guy.
I said it earlier, but youth hockey seems like a fickle crowd to appeal to for a professional hockey arena. Seems like you'd want to appeal to young professionals, college students, and other folks that are likely to show up to weeknight games. Seems hard to do that in Alpharetta compared to places closer in like Cumberland or Perimeter Center. I'm no NHL market expert though.
I'm still skeptical about North Point Mall. Alpharetta killed a development there a year or two ago for being too dense. Also they can't offer the same type of county incentive package that made Forsyth appealing to the car dealership guy.
I said it earlier, but youth hockey seems like a fickle crowd to appeal to for a professional hockey arena. Seems like you'd want to appeal to young professionals, college students, and other folks that are likely to show up to weeknight games. Seems hard to do that in Alpharetta compared to places closer in like Cumberland or Perimeter Center. I'm no NHL market expert though.
I'm still skeptical about North Point Mall. Alpharetta killed a development there a year or two ago for being too dense.
Supposedly, the Alpharetta municipal government killed the development that you’re referring to because they knew that there reportedly was a legitimate chance that they potentially might be able to attract an NHL arena-anchored mixed-use development and entertainment district at the North Point Mall site. So from the standpoint of Alpharetta city government it made sense to holdout for a bigger and more high-profile and more impactful mixed-use development and entertainment district that potentially could be anchored by an NHL team.
The NHL arena project at the North Point Mall site also seems to be helped greatly because it is being led by Anson Carter who is a former NHL player that appears to have much pull, an inside track and many personal connections and much personal likability with NHL officials.
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Originally Posted by Datdudebrah
Also they can't offer the same type of county incentive package that made Forsyth appealing to the car dealership guy.
In some of the reporting on the North Point Mall site, Fulton County officials spoke very supportively of the prospects of an NHL team possibly being based at the North Point Mall site in Alpharetta. So it looks like the Alpharetta city government seemingly may be planning to get financial help from Fulton County government (which very notably has a 7% hotel-motel tax that is used to help pay for the construction bonds on Mercedes-Benz Stadium) to fund the proposed NHL arena project at North Point Mall if it indeed comes to fruition.
The City of Alpharetta proper also has its own 8% hotel tax that seemingly could be used to help fund an NHL arena project at the North Point Mall site. And Alpharetta is a pretty wealthy municipality, particularly with the stunningly explosive growth in high-revenue generating businesses and high-income earning jobs that the city has experienced since the end of the Great Recession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datdudebrah
I said it earlier, but youth hockey seems like a fickle crowd to appeal to for a professional hockey arena. Seems like you'd want to appeal to young professionals, college students, and other folks that are likely to show up to weeknight games. Seems hard to do that in Alpharetta compared to places closer in like Cumberland or Perimeter Center. I'm no NHL market expert though.
That Georgia 400-anchored suburban and exurban Northern Crescent doesn’t just have a highly robust youth amateur ice hockey scene but also has a highly robust adult amateur ice hockey scene that along with that area’s youth amateur ice hockey scene supposedly makes up one of the largest overall amateur ice hockey scenes of any large major metropolitan region in the U.S.
Those youth and adult amateur ice hockey leagues that play out of the five aforementioned Northside suburban ice rinks are surprisingly pretty large, particularly for a Sun Belt metro, and supposedly are one of the main motivations for the NHL wanting to return to an Atlanta market that has only exploded with demographic and economic growth since the Thrashers left the market in 2011.
Also, it’s the impressive number of very high-income earning young professionals in North Fulton and South Forsyth counties (along with the greater North metro Atlanta suburban/exurban crescent as a whole) that apparently is attracting the NHL to the Alpharetta area as the East Cobb/North Fulton/South Forsyth/North Gwinnett swath of the North Atlanta suburbs is home to the largest cluster of high-earning households (households with median incomes over $100k yearly) in the Atlanta metropolitan region and the state of Georgia and is one of the largest clusters of high-earning households in the greater American South.
That area (Alpharetta and the North Atlanta suburbs/exurbs OTP) has much more economic, social and political pull than some (particularly ITP) might be keenly aware of… Which explains why the Atlanta Braves moved from Downtown Atlanta to Cobb County and explains why Alpharetta potentially may be on the verge of attracting an NHL team to the area.
Supposedly, the Alpharetta municipal government killed the development that you’re referring to because they knew that there reportedly was a legitimate chance that they potentially might be able to attract an NHL arena....
I mean that sounds like one of those internet rumors. May or may not have any truth to it. What they said on the record though was that the former North Point redevelopment had too many apartments and would upset their owner / renter "balance".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
the Alpharetta city government seemingly may be planning to get financial help from Fulton County government (which very notably has a 7% hotel-motel tax that is used to help pay for the construction bonds on Mercedes-Benz Stadium) to fund the proposed NHL arena project at North Point Mall if it indeed comes to fruition.
Maybe, I'm just saying this was a key development in Forsyth, probably one of the biggest things they had going on in the county while in Fulton its just another development and may or may not attract the attention of leadership. Plus of course here we're talking about taking money from much busier downtown ATL/perimeter center/airport hotels to give it to Alpharetta...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
The City of Alpharetta proper also has its own 8% hotel tax that seemingly could be used to help fund an NHL arena project at the North Point Mall site.
Alpharetta is a small town population wise, 60K residents and a small land area, I don't think they're going to put significant funds into a full modern arena even with a hotel tax. Especially with all of the other public projects they've been working on recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
That Georgia 400-anchored suburban and exurban Northern Crescent doesn’t just have a highly robust youth amateur ice hockey scene but also has a highly robust adult amateur ice hockey scene that along with that area’s youth amateur ice hockey scene supposedly makes up one of the largest overall amateur ice hockey scenes of any large major metropolitan region in the U.S.
Those youth and adult amateur ice hockey leagues that play out of the five aforementioned Northside suburban ice rinks are surprisingly pretty large, particularly for a Sun Belt metro, and supposedly are one of the main motivations for the NHL wanting to return to an Atlanta market that has only exploded with demographic and economic growth since the Thrashers left the market in 2011.
That's great, I'm just saying hockey players are usually playing or practicing hockey on weeknights, who's going to go to the games? That's overstating it, but I wouldn't give up mass appeal chasing youth and amateur hockey players that would show up (when they have the time) to an NHL regardless of location anyway.
I mean that sounds like one of those internet rumors. May or may not have any truth to it. What they said on the record though was that the former North Point redevelopment had too many apartments and would upset their owner / renter "balance".
While I personally can’t confirm whether that story is true, there appears to at least maybe possibly be some credibility to it because after the City of Alpharetta killed that project using the excuse that the project “had too many apartments…,” the talk of the North Point Mall property being a leading contender to attract an NHL franchise back to the Atlanta market heated up.
And if that was actually the case, I personally cannot at all blame the Alpharetta city government for using any excuse to kill that earlier development proposal if the serious possibility of attracting an NHL team to the North Point Mall property emerged after the City of Alpharetta had started to commit to the earlier redevelopment deal before knowing that attracting an NHL team to the area was in the cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datdudebrah
Maybe, I'm just saying this was a key development in Forsyth, probably one of the biggest things they had going on in the county while in Fulton its just another development and may or may not attract the attention of leadership.
The serious prospect of potentially having an NHL arena-anchored mixed-use development entertainment district is a very big deal for whichever government jurisdiction becomes a contender for such a project and definitely is not just another development, whether it be Forsyth County or the City of Alpharetta proper/Fulton County.
Attracting another NHL franchise back to the Atlanta market has been a major desire for many Atlanta region boosters since the Thrashers left the Atlanta market in 2011. So it should be no surprise if Fulton County government leaders decide to be supportive of such a major development whether it be in Central Atlanta or in Alpharetta/North Fulton County.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datdudebrah
Plus of course here we're talking about taking money from much busier downtown ATL/perimeter center/airport hotels to give it to Alpharetta...
Alpharetta obviously doesn’t have the large cluster of hotels that other parts of Fulton County (including Sandy Springs/Perimeter, Buckhead, Midtown Atlanta, Downtown Atlanta and the Atlanta Airport) have.
But the North Fulton cities of Alpharetta, Roswell, Milton and Johns Creek combined are home to about three-dozen hotels that contribute at least a noticeable amount to Fulton County hotel-motel tax revenues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datdudebrah
Alpharetta is a small town population wise, 60K residents and a small land area, I don't think they're going to put significant funds into a full modern arena even with a hotel tax. Especially with all of the other public projects they've been working on recently.
Alpharetta may have only had a population of 67,267 residents as of 2022. But Alpharetta proper has a median household income of $141,202/year, what appears to be a gross domestic product of more than $4.8 billion, and a property tax base of more than $6 billion.
So Alpharetta seems to be very capable of funding an NHL arena project. And (should the city get the opportunity) Alpharetta is going to be highly motivated to fund an NHL arena using the argument that the NHL arena project will be an investment in increased continued future economic growth. And Alpharetta probably will get some meaningful financial help from Fulton County because of the magnitude and the apparent public popularity of the prospect of the Atlanta market regaining an NHL franchise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datdudebrah
That's great, I'm just saying hockey players are usually playing or practicing hockey on weeknights, who's going to go to the games? That's overstating it, but I wouldn't give up mass appeal chasing youth and amateur hockey players that would show up (when they have the time) to an NHL regardless of location anyway.
It looks like the powers-that-be are counting on the numerous residents of the numerous households with $100k+ yearly incomes in the affluent North Fulton/East Cobb/East Cherokee/South Forsyth/North Gwinnett/Hall County swath of the North Atlanta suburbs and exurbs to regularly attend games and help to sustain a potential future Atlanta area NHL franchise.
I think that the powers-that-be are also counting on having much financial support from metro Atlanta’s massive corporate community in the form of sponsorship and sales of luxury boxes along with revenues from the large mixed-use development entertainment district that is planned to be built immediately adjacent to the proposed NHL arena.
And the participants in OTP suburban North metro Atlanta’s robust youth and adult amateur ice hockey scene obviously will continue to practice and play in their own amateur ice hockey games, but on the nights that they aren’t practicing and playing in their own amateur ice hockey games many of them likely will be at least somewhat frequently attending home games of the Atlanta area’s potential future NHL franchise, particularly if said NHL franchise is successful in frequently putting a competitive team on the ice.
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