To the APD: Tell me why this is not vehicular manslaughter (Austin: crime, lawyers)

[Trainwreck20]

we won't know until a report comes out.
^^this

[S6Sputnik]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

Should sidewalks have warning signs on them stating "Use at your own risk. Motor Vehicles always have right of way."?

Yes, and to me they do, as does my driverside door ... I have a sign on my front door that says "Use at your own risk" .

[Nighthawks11]

Well friend, here is the definition of Vehicular Manslaughter:

vehicular manslaughter
n. the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding. Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony. Death of a passenger, including a loved one or friend, can be vehicular manslaughter if due to illegal driving.

What do the police know anyway? Its not like they have received training in traffic and criminal law.... You know what? I think the lot of us right here could do a much better job deciding how to handle these driver's futures. Instead of basing our investigations on first hand knowledge and evidence we could read a statesman article and base an arrest solely on how we feel. Then once we have lynched each of these drivers, (eye for an eye you know) we'll give APD a call and let them know that their standard of probable cause for an arrest is archaic and that emotion and what feels right will be the new standard for taking a mans freedom.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by Nighthawks11

Well friend, here is the definition of Vehicular Manslaughter:

vehicular manslaughter
n. the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving or speeding. Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony. Death of a passenger, including a loved one or friend, can be vehicular manslaughter if due to illegal driving.

What do the police know anyway? Its not like they have received training in traffic and criminal law.... You know what? I think the lot of us right here could do a much better job deciding how to handle these driver's futures. Instead of basing our investigations on first hand knowledge and evidence we could read a statesman article and base an arrest solely on how we feel. Then once we have lynched each of these drivers, (eye for an eye you know) we'll give APD a call and let them know that their standard of probable cause for an arrest is archaic and that emotion and what feels right will be the new standard for taking a mans freedom.

Sorry but there reason we have an Office of the Police Monitor:

City of Austin - OPM Home

Here is some video of the crash site:

Out-of-control truck kills man | KXAN.com

The car jumped the parking block, went onto the sidewalk, ran over Felipe, and then ran through the front of the store. Maybe the driver should have had his brakes checked and this whole thing could have been avoided.

To THL: Yes this is a very litigious society but that does not mean there aren't cases with merit that are never started. What about those 3 construction workers who died last year due to the faulty (the company was cited for it) scaffolding on the downtown condo? Or the jogger in the original post? Or the dozens of hit and runs that occur every year in this city?

So hypothetically what if the driver of the vehicle at La Mexicana mistook the brake pedal for the gas pedal and "accidentally" plowed into the store. What you say that was an act of God or that it was human error?

And then there is the elephant in the room on this case. Given that neighborhood it is very likely the driver was a Mexican National. At this point all that person needs is a $50 bus ticket and they'll never have to face any charges in the United States as long as they never return.

[Nighthawks11]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

Sorry but there reason we have an Office of the Police Monitor:

City of Austin - OPM Home

Here is some video of the crash site:

Out-of-control truck kills man | KXAN.com

The car jumped the parking block, went onto the sidewalk, ran over Felipe, and then ran through the front of the store. Maybe the driver should have had his brakes checked and this whole thing could have been avoided.

To THL: Yes this is a very litigious society but that does not mean there aren't cases with merit that are never started. What about those 3 construction workers who died last year due to the faulty (the company was cited for it) scaffolding on the downtown condo? Or the jogger in the original post? Or the dozens of hit and runs that occur every year in this city?

So hypothetically what if the driver of the vehicle at La Mexicana mistook the brake pedal for the gas pedal and "accidentally" plowed into the store. What you say that was an act of God or that it was human error?

And then there is the elephant in the room on this case. Given that neighborhood it is very likely the driver was a Mexican National. At this point all that person needs is a $50 bus ticket and they'll never have to face any charges in the United States as long as they never return.

"The OPM is the vehicle for citizens to voice and file complaints against APD officers."

That is from the police monitors web site. I didn't look super hard, but I skimmed it and failed to find the part where the OPM could be used to make a decision for the police on who they arrest. You may have been thinking of Magnum P.I.



Now you list a jogger, 3 construction workers and multiple hit and runs. The hit and runs do not belong in this group. That is leaving the scene of a collision or Failure to stop and render aid. Many hit and runs go unsolved due to not knowing who the driver was.

If you take another look at the definition that I posted you will see that the legal standard for vehicular manslaughter is not just human error, but that it is gross negligence. Gross negligence is based on the standard of a reasonable man. So is it reasonable to think that someone could accidentally hit the gas while meaning to hit the brake?

So lets identify that elephant. We have opened our eyes and we are now all aware that there is a big raciest elephant in the room. So you believe that it was probable that the driver was possible a Mexican national and by your quotation marks I take it that you don't feel that this was an accident at all. So why would a Mexican national drive into La Mexicana? If this was a Mexican terrorist you would think that he may have chosen a target like Dillard's or Fazoli's.

[Trainwreck20]

And then there is the elephant in the room on this case. Given that neighborhood it is very likely the driver was a Mexican National. At this point all that person needs is a $50 bus ticket and they'll never have to face any charges in the United States as long as they never return.

Huh? That is a huge leap. "Very likely" a Mexican National? That is pulling a statement out of the, um, thin air. Rush Limbaugh would be proud .

Charge them first and figure it out later, perhaps in spite of any evidence to breaking a law? That sounds like the start of a good ol' police state. I was too lazy to go look up vehicular manslaughter the other day, but wonder what the wording was. It is an odd state of existence, I guess, where we are held to the wording of the laws instead of someone's whim. There is a huge stigma to being charged with a crime, even if it is later found out that you are not guilty of it.

Seriously, though, I knew one individual who killed a kid while driving. The kid skateboarded out into the road from a sidewalk, there was absolutely no reasonable way he could have avoided him. He, of course, was not charged, but the incident so disturbed him that he took his own life a little less than a year later. If a person does accidentally kill someone while driving, what is the motivation for charging them with a crime? Revenge? An eye-for-an-eye? Should we attempt to destroy another person's life (and their family, as well) because another life was taken? Criminal charges are about rehabilitation and removal from society, civil court is about reparations. In most cases, I suspect the driver involved in such an accident is immediately 'rehabilitated' and does not need 'removal' from society.

[LI2Texas]

Doesn't the district attorney decide on whether or not to file changes after all the facts are obtained?

[texdav]

Yep ;the DA decides or a grand jury.

[verybadgnome]

I submitted an open records request and got this response:

"This email is in response to your recent Open record request concerning Felipe Duran. Austin Police report 2011-521240 was found responsive, however due to an on-going criminal investigation the full report may not be released at this time. Would you like to with draw your request for now or should I forward the request to the Texas AG’s office for a legal opinion concerning the non release of this report?"

Does it usually take 5 weeks to conduct an investigation like this? Let's hope the driver doesn't do what Jessica Tata tried.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Huh? That is a huge leap. "Very likely" a Mexican National? That is pulling a statement out of the, um, thin air. Rush Limbaugh would be proud .

Charge them first and figure it out later, perhaps in spite of any evidence to breaking a law? That sounds like the start of a good ol' police state. I was too lazy to go look up vehicular manslaughter the other day, but wonder what the wording was. It is an odd state of existence, I guess, where we are held to the wording of the laws instead of someone's whim. There is a huge stigma to being charged with a crime, even if it is later found out that you are not guilty of it.

Seriously, though, I knew one individual who killed a kid while driving. The kid skateboarded out into the road from a sidewalk, there was absolutely no reasonable way he could have avoided him. He, of course, was not charged, but the incident so disturbed him that he took his own life a little less than a year later. If a person does accidentally kill someone while driving, what is the motivation for charging them with a crime? Revenge? An eye-for-an-eye? Should we attempt to destroy another person's life (and their family, as well) because another life was taken? Criminal charges are about rehabilitation and removal from society, civil court is about reparations. In most cases, I suspect the driver involved in such an accident is immediately 'rehabilitated' and does not need 'removal' from society.

I looked up the data on this Census Tract (18.13) at Rundberg Lane using the American Community Survey data. Maybe not "very likely" but 40.4% of the population there is in the "Not a U.S. Citizen" category. Margin of error is 7.3%.

It is about protecting the public from the 5% of drivers that are a menace to everyone else. I would say negligent driving that results in a death could be ground for the revoking of that person's drivers license so they aren't as likely to to it again. Now driving with a revoked license should (or could?) be grounds for jail time if there is a vehicular manslaughter as a prior just as repeat DWIs can bring jail time.

If you are charged with a crime in Travis County or COA and the charges are later dropped does that still show up on your record? If it doesn't that it shouldn't affect your getting a job or rent an apartment, correct? Even if it did the person would be able to show what they were charge with, in this case vehicular homicide, and that it was later dropped. What if the cops don't charge the suspect and then the suspect leaves the country? Extradition doesn't always work.