Austin has become such a nanny state...well city. (Lawn: exemptions, live in)

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Buildings built too tall crowd out my sunlight and cause Vitamin D deficiency,

Please link to _any_ scientific study establishing this with any modern buildings (with setback and step requirements, ie the buildings that haven't _already_ been outlawed a long time ago).

Or are you just making stuff up for your own agenda? Certainly seems like it (city living is actually on average healthier than rural living, despite your claims).

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Please link to _any_ scientific study establishing this with any modern buildings (with setback and step requirements, ie the buildings that haven't _already_ been outlawed a long time ago).

Or are you just making stuff up for your own agenda? Certainly seems like it (city living is actually on average healthier than rural living, despite your claims).

Really? I'll have to tell all these 80+ year olds out here that are still actively farming (not easy work by a long shot) that they're not as healthy as people in the city.

One of the first things I noticed when we moved out here when I was in my 40's was that it was weeks and weeks and weeks before I saw anyone in the obituaries that was younger than 80 - and that was a Georgetown local who died in an auto accident in Austin.

Petro, the reference to childbirth had to do with abortion. There's a whole lot of "let's legislate the lives of others so that they live the way WE want them to, but it'll NEVER happen to me because nothing I do is annoying or bad" going on these days, and it's pretty easy to tell who has that life philosophy.

Carrie Nation is still with us, it sometimes seems. Only the focus has changed.

[petro]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Petro, the reference to childbirth had to do with abortion. There's a whole lot of "let's legislate the lives of others so that they live the way WE want them to, but it'll NEVER happen to me because nothing I do is annoying or bad" going on these days, and it's pretty easy to tell who has that life philosophy.

Carrie Nation is still with us, it sometimes seems. Only the focus has changed.

This goes back to what I said earlier—many here don't seem to know the difference between a right and a privilege. Driving is a privilege. Free bags are a privilege. Abortion is a right. Let's not confuse them.

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

I'm trying to point out that that cuts both ways, something that those who are hell bent on regulating the lives of others in the minutest details based on their personal preferences (particularly as regards smoking, marriage, childbirth, etc.) seem to forget.

But we regulate the lives of others all the time with other things. Speed limits, drunk driving laws, minimum drinking age...all of those regulate the lives of others.

Pretty much every law regulates the lives of people.

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Buildings built too tall crowd out my sunlight and cause Vitamin D deficiency, not to mention light pollution at night! Crowding too many people into one place causes all sorts of problems, including stress and the likelihood of increased spread of disease by greater exposure! We must outlaw these things fast! Because I don't like them!

They have in some places. It's called the McMansion Ordinance.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Really? I'll have to tell all these 80+ year olds out here that are still actively farming (not easy work by a long shot) that they're not as healthy as people in the city.

One of the first things I noticed when we moved out here when I was in my 40's was that it was weeks and weeks and weeks before I saw anyone in the obituaries that was younger than 80 - and that was a Georgetown local who died in an auto accident in Austin.

Anecdotes aren't data.

City vs. Country: Who Is Healthier? - WSJ


on average, city living is healthier than country living. For every 80 year old outlier farmer, there's 10 people that drive everywhere.

[DCtoTejas]

Originally Posted by petro

Seems like many people don't understand the difference between rights and privileges. Everything being discussed here is a privilege, not a right.

Free bags—Plastic/paper bags are irresponsibly wasteful and harmful to the environment. Some of us brought our own reusable bags to the store, long before there was a ban. And if you can't seem to get it together enough to leave a few extra bags in your car, you always have the option of paying for your bags. Lazy people can still get bags.

Texting/surfing internet/messing with your electronics while driving—The punishment is not strong enough. This is just as bad as driving while under the influence. You should lose your driving privilege if you demonstrate such little regard for the lives of your fellow travelers.

Smoking anytime, anywhere—Oh, I'm really sorry that your drug addition has become less convenient for you. Sometimes life is hard.

The bag issue goes beyond forgetting them in your car or house. Because the small bags are now unavailable the packers at the grocery stores try their best to optimize the utilization of the larger "reusable" bags, this leads to slower checkout times and overloaded heavy bags more likely to be dropped or unmanageable by some people. A better solution is to continue to have the single use plastic bags available but charge for them instead of charging for a larger plastic bag that is marked "reusable". That way choice is preserved but people are encouraged to switch to reusable bags.

For the distracted driving issue there only needs to be aggressive enforcement of reckless driving statutes, not more laws aimed at narrow subsets of behavior. Not everyone agrees that driving is a privilege either, I don't think that utilizing the common means of transportation as a private conveyance should necessitate a license. There weren't horse licenses required before the automobile.

With smoking the issue is it is a legal product, at some point if society decides that it is so harmful as to be banished from everywhere then it should be made illegal. As others have mentioned on this thread, what was wrong with allowing individual businesses the choice? The choice to allow people to consume a legal product on their property.

Your post exemplifies the "progressive" mindset, that everything is a privilege granted by the government. I don't know what is progressive about that.

[MrCurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by petro

Seems like many people don't understand the difference between rights and privileges. Everything being discussed here is a privilege, not a right.

Free bags—Plastic/paper bags are irresponsibly wasteful and harmful to the environment. Some of us brought our own reusable bags to the store, long before there was a ban. And if you can't seem to get it together enough to leave a few extra bags in your car, you always have the option of paying for your bags. Lazy people can still get bags.

Texting/surfing internet/messing with your electronics while driving—The punishment is not strong enough. This is just as bad as driving while under the influence. You should lose your driving privilege if you demonstrate such little regard for the lives of your fellow travelers.

Smoking anytime, anywhere—Oh, I'm really sorry that your drug addition has become less convenient for you. Sometimes life is hard.

I think you're the one who doesn't understand privilege vs. right as a couple of your examples are way off.

Is it a privilege if the government lets me decide whether or not to allow smoking at my private establishment, on private land, that no one is forced to visit?

Smokers do not have an absolute right to smoke where they want. And I have no issue with banning smoking on public property. But these all-encompassing smoking bans are absolute an infringement of private landowners' rights, and I say this as a non-smoker who actively avoids any venues where smoking is allowed.

Same with the free bags -- store owners don't have the right to conduct their business as they see fit provided there is no harm to the general public? No matter what kind of ridiculous, circular arguments you make, offering plastic bags at stores is not contrary to public well-being. Littering, yes. Waste, yes. But many of us recycle those bags. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean YOUR wishes should be imposed on everyone. "I think your post was too long and you wasted too much electricity typing it up. YOU HATER OF THE PLANET!" Do you think that's legit?

It's sort of like the left's "my body, my choice" -- until it doesn't agree with your choice, then it's their body to do with as they please.

[petro]

Originally Posted by MrCurmudgeon

I think you're the one who doesn't understand privilege vs. right as a couple of your examples are way off.

Is it a privilege if the government lets me decide whether or not to allow smoking at my private establishment, on private land, that no one is forced to visit?

Smokers do not have an absolute right to smoke where they want. And I have no issue with banning smoking on public property. But these all-encompassing smoking bans are absolute an infringement of private landowners' rights, and I say this as a non-smoker who actively avoids any venues where smoking is allowed.

Same with the free bags -- store owners don't have the right to conduct their business as they see fit provided there is no harm to the general public? No matter what kind of ridiculous, circular arguments you make, offering plastic bags at stores is not contrary to public well-being. Littering, yes. Waste, yes. But many of us recycle those bags. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean YOUR wishes should be imposed on everyone. "I think your post was too long and you wasted too much electricity typing it up. YOU HATER OF THE PLANET!" Do you think that's legit?

It's sort of like the left's "my body, my choice" -- until it doesn't agree with your choice, then it's their body to do with as they please.

I think it's safe to say, some people do need nannies after all.

It all comes down to choices. I could whine about not getting my free bags at the grocery store, or I could be a grown-up man and bring my own bags. I choose the latter. Regarding smoking, yes, you have the right to kill yourself with cigarettes, but as a business owner, you do not have the right to kill your employees with second-hand smoke. That's just the world we live in.

[AuburnAL]

Originally Posted by petro

Seems like many people don't understand the difference between rights and privileges. Everything being discussed here is a privilege, not a right.

Free bags—Plastic/paper bags are irresponsibly wasteful and harmful to the environment. Some of us brought our own reusable bags to the store, long before there was a ban. And if you can't seem to get it together enough to leave a few extra bags in your car, you always have the option of paying for your bags. Lazy people can still get bags.

I always reused my bags as garbage bags, and I got them for free whereas I have to pay for bags that do not fit a garbage can now.