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I agree with you OP, Houston has the better cityscape. If you want a big metropolis and all that it offers, then you need to choose Houston or Dallas now. Austin is not like those cities, and personally that's why I still like it. Like you, I've relocated from a very large city (New York) and didn't want to experience that here. Even though I'm a transplant, I still like the way things were when I moved here fourteen years ago, but cest la vie.
I am confused as to how Austin growing and adding world class amenities will turn it into Dallas? Is San Francisco, Dallas? Do you guys only think of Dallas when you think of upscale dining and shopping? It's not as though me wishing for growth will make it happen, it is happening. I was just wondering what that growth entails and what the plans are for the city for this inevitable growth.
I was also under the impression that you guys wanted a more west coast progressive feel to the growth which is why I thought the city was doing a great job of emulating the bay area. For one I think the upscale development already there looks nothing like Houston or Dallas. Houston's upscale development isn't as colorful or unique. The parts of Austin I saw remind me a bit more of Silver Lake in LA than anything I've seen in Houston. Why is that a bad thing?
The essence of austin is being able to wear flip flop and shorts everywhere. Austin is casual and I hope austin doesnt develop that fake plastic feel of dallas.
Museums would be great, I think it will take tech startup founder money to do it. If I make my hundreds of millions I will definitely do it. I have a good friend that is a non-profit fundraising pro.
Contrary to austin76, there are lots of the things mentioned that were bad
west 6th was a wasteland. east austin was a wasteland. no one lived downtown because there was pretty much no place to live. South congress/south lamar/south first/burnet road were all wastelands.
Austin is so much better in so many ways I think it very much balances what was lost.
The #1 thing we need is inexpensive housing in the inner core. The inner core zoning has to be fixed so single family home lots can be torn down and turned into small # multi family units. Houston keeps building loops which is the complete opposite of what austin is trying to do. Same with Dallas.
I think the eastside needs a density overlay.
Thanks for the reasonable post. I wasn't meaning to say that Austin should turn into Dallas. Apparently just saying Dallas on this forum is akin to yelling bomb in a movie theater. I do agree that a lot of Austin when I visited in my college years was not that great and the development I see now has massively improved the city. It doesn't remind me of Houston or Dallas, but something on it's own. All I was wondering is if Austin was planning to continue the trend of improving it's cityscape.
Why is all development in this forum seen as some sort of "Dallas-ization" of the city?
...Dallas isn't the only city in America with strip malls, chain restaurants, and brand new cars. As for the hiking part, you have Southwest Dallas. I'm sure there's more, but I don't really hang out there as much.
You can still be "authentic" and be a major city.
I'm not a huge fan of Dallas, but that annoys me... when cities grow, they have evolve and build for the growing population like every other major city.
Your city, just like mine, isn't losing an identity when gaining more skyscrapers/companies, or better transportation, or growth and I don't get why people automatically think that. Dallas has its own identity as well, but it's no different than Atlanta, or Philly, or Houston when it comes to business or having the basics of what every major city needs.
Austin will still be Austin... I mean, the skyline has changed dramatically just within the last 7 years, but people can still tell the difference between that, Dallas, Houston, Ft. Worth, El Paso, and San Antonio as far as identity goes.
OP, i feel like this post is written by a different person than all the other posts by radiolibre that have come before it! It is clear that you don't know Austin or its amenities very well, Houston (or Dallas) frankly would be a much better fit for you.
There have been many positive changes in Austin since 1985 or 1995 but by only following it all from a distance, it is clear that you have missed so very very much.
I am in Austin for business and am loving the new development. This is the first time I've actually been able to explore the city thoroughly. I've taken trips all around and like it for the most part. The one thing that I am wondering about though is if Austin is planning to really change up the cityscape at all? You guys have nature and parks on lock. The city is beautiful and I would move to the city for the natural landscape alone, but as far as the city itself I did find it a little lacking. Now before I get pelted for saying that I am just curious as to what the plans are for transforming the city into something bigger and better? I love the development over in the South and Lamar, it looks like a mini-Melrose. The area where they're building new high rise condos looks amazing and if that is what people are complaining about when it comes to all the changes, I don't see why.
Yet, is the city planning on adding some world class museums, theater, opera? I didn't really see a lot of fine dining, or upscale shopping areas. Does Austin have a River Oaks or Beverly Hills? Is the city just not interested in that? I figured it was taking a page from Dallas and becoming upscale.
I guess the reason I am asking is that I am torn between Houston and Austin to make my final decision on where I'll move to in the next month. I have the option of both and I can afford both cities.
I love the natural landscape and the hip tech scene which reminded A LOT of the Bay Area (minus SF) but I like the cityscape of Houston a bit more. If I could combine the two, I would have the perfect city but alas life is a series of trade-offs.
Is Austin planning on developing itself into a major city?
I am torn on responding to you. Part of me sympathizes with your frustrations and part of me thinks you deserve the flak you are getting!!I think willy nilly Austin is getting to be more of what you would call "a major city, " though Austin and planning are not really words that belong in the same sentence. At the same time, you don't get what makes Austin Austin, and worse don't seem to think there is anything to get. Austin has snobberies, but they are very different to the snobberies of let's say Dallas and Houston or California- your main points of reference, and all generalizations and comparisons are both odious and unavoidable.
I think much of the development in the downtown and adjacent areas has been fantastic, but has had the bad effect of pricing out long term residents and elements of what called be the creative classes that made the city interesting in the first place. Walk the newer board walk section of the Town/ladybird lake hike and bike trail if you haven't already and want a sense of something that the city has really done right. I hope Waller Creek will turn out as magnificent. However most of the growth has been suburban sprawl of the most generic kind and has led to the now very bad traffic problems we have...
Upscale in Austin means something quite different to what I think you are looking for. Take what is arguably the currently most famous restaurant- Franklin BBQ. It is is an undistinguished building on the east Side. People come from all over the country and increasingly all over the world to stand in line for 4 hours or so to eat a piece of brisket. Aaron Franklin refuses to scale up because he makes a good living, loves what he does, and will not make more than he can actually make himself. It is pretentious and annoying but it also has integrity and marks a refusal to sacrifice quality and control for a quick buck. That is generally more the Austin way. Many of our best restaurants started out as food trailers or farmer's market stalls: Odd Duck, Dai Due, Qui and so on. The food is idea rather than market driven, niche, personalized, deliberately and often perversely small scale. Houston is a fabulous eating town and Austin has nothing like its variety, but the latter's food scene is more innovative, much less mass market etc. You send us the dreadful pappathis, pappathat. We send you Uchi/ko and Alamo Draft House.
Austin will never have an art museum like the Menil in Houston. Our legacy institutions are attached to the university. Our greatest cultural institution is the Harry Ransom Center, one of the greatest literary and cultural archival repositories in the world, possibly the best one, but it is geared towards researchers. . . The university is still much more important to the city's identity than Rice is in Houston or SMU in Dallas.
To risk a fashion analogy about a city that is delightfully not a fashion capital (I love that you go to the opera in Austin and there are people there in shorts and flip-flops next to old ladies in diamonds and pearls, and there is currently maybe one restaurant in the city that has a dress code), Austin is more like a bespoke pair of shoes, Dallas this season's Gucci or Prada, and Houston a pair of designer sneakers. This is still a town where the dominant ethos is make it yourself, for yourself and your friends. A lot of this ethos is bogus, but a lot of it isn't.
If you want fancy old money residential neighborhoods, check out Pemberton, Tarrytown, Mount Bonnell. The Domain, which I kinda hate, offers a lesser version of the upper middlebrow shopping of Dallas's North Park Center or the Galleria in Houston, but you might like it. Though Austin is increasingly not a town of malls. New money is west into the hills.
What worries me most about Austin is that its core is increasingly becoming a fancy, yet quirky playground for the rich. We already have some of the worst income segregation in the nation. And the transportation infrastructure is pathetic. Highway expansion where it would be most needed is not possible, and there is no political will for it and it won't and should not happen, and there is not sufficient population density for good public transportation. If only the idiot citizens had not voted against the 2000 rail plan?
I think you would be happier in Houston. It is way bigger, amenity rich and cosmopolitan and you seem not to value the things that might make Austin a reasonable trade off. You can always drive up for a weekend when you want more natural beauty?
...Dallas isn't the only city in America with strip malls, chain restaurants, and brand new cars. As for the hiking part, you have Southwest Dallas. I'm sure there's more, but I don't really hang out there as much.
You can still be "authentic" and be a major city.
I'm not a huge fan of Dallas, but that annoys me... when cities grow, they have evolve and build for the growing population like every other major city.
Your city, just like mine, isn't losing an identity when gaining more skyscrapers/companies, or better transportation, or growth and I don't get why people automatically think that. Dallas has its own identity as well, but it's no different than Atlanta, or Philly, or Houston when it comes to business or having the basics of what every major city needs.
It's not Fort Worth that really hates Dallas, it's Austin. I mean what does Dallas have to do with Austin? They're 3 hours apart. I can see Fort Worth not being fond of Dallas due to it being so close, but what's Austin's deal? More often than not, these hateful Austinites have never experienced Dallas. They haven't visited the non-plastic, flashy parts of the city -- Lower Greenville, Bishop Arts, Deep Ellum, etc. Heck, even Uptown is diversifying. There's so many places in Dallas that have changed from the supposedly stuffy vibe -- way more patios, improved walkability, an abundance of new urban parks, more focus on adaptive reuse, new events/festivals, and several revitalized older neighborhoods. Deep Ellum is now on the up.
But it doesn't matter. Let them hate. Dallas will continue to open its door to transplants and refugees. Austin can remain the provincial, insular, hateful town it is.
I am torn on responding to you. Part of me sympathizes with your frustrations and part of me thinks you deserve the flak you are getting!!I think willy nilly Austin is getting to be more of what you would call "a major city, " though Austin and planning are not really words that belong in the same sentence. At the same time, you don't get what makes Austin Austin, and worse don't seem to think there is anything to get. Austin has snobberies, but they are very different to the snobberies of let's say Dallas and Houston or California- your main points of reference, and all generalizations and comparisons are both odious and unavoidable.
I think much of the development in the downtown and adjacent areas has been fantastic, but has had the bad effect of pricing out long term residents and elements of what called be the creative classes that made the city interesting in the first place. Walk the newer board walk section of the Town/ladybird lake hike and bike trail if you haven't already and want a sense of something that the city has really done right. I hope Waller Creek will turn out as magnificent. However most of the growth has been suburban sprawl of the most generic kind and has led to the now very bad traffic problems we have...
Upscale in Austin means something quite different to what I think you are looking for. Take what is arguably the currently most famous restaurant- Franklin BBQ. It is is an undistinguished building on the east Side. People come from all over the country and increasingly all over the world to stand in line for 4 hours or so to eat a piece of brisket. Aaron Franklin refuses to scale up because he makes a good living, loves what he does, and will not make more than he can actually make himself. It is pretentious and annoying but it also has integrity and marks a refusal to sacrifice quality and control for a quick buck. That is generally more the Austin way. Many of our best restaurants started out as food trailers or farmer's market stalls: Odd Duck, Dai Due, Qui and so on. The food is idea rather than market driven, niche, personalized, deliberately and often perversely small scale. Houston is a fabulous eating town and Austin has nothing like its variety, but the latter's food scene is more innovative, much less mass market etc. You send us the dreadful pappathis, pappathat. We send you Uchi/ko and Alamo Draft House.
Austin will never have an art museum like the Menil in Houston. Our legacy institutions are attached to the university. Our greatest cultural institution is the Harry Ransom Center, one of the greatest literary and cultural archival repositories in the world, possibly the best one, but it is geared towards researchers. . . The university is still much more important to the city's identity than Rice is in Houston or SMU in Dallas.
To risk a fashion analogy about a city that is delightfully not a fashion capital (I love that you go to the opera in Austin and there are people there in shorts and flip-flops next to old ladies in diamonds and pearls, and there is currently maybe one restaurant in the city that has a dress code), Austin is more like a bespoke pair of shoes, Dallas this season's Gucci or Prada, and Houston a pair of designer sneakers. This is still a town where the dominant ethos is make it yourself, for yourself and your friends. A lot of this ethos is bogus, but a lot of it isn't.
If you want fancy old money residential neighborhoods, check out Pemberton, Tarrytown, Mount Bonnell. The Domain, which I kinda hate, offers a lesser version of the upper middlebrow shopping of Dallas's North Park Center or the Galleria in Houston, but you might like it. Though Austin is increasingly not a town of malls. New money is west into the hills.
What worries me most about Austin is that its core is increasingly becoming a fancy, yet quirky playground for the rich. We already have some of the worst income segregation in the nation. And the transportation infrastructure is pathetic. Highway expansion where it would be most needed is not possible, and there is no political will for it and it won't and should not happen, and there is not sufficient population density for good public transportation. If only the idiot citizens had not voted against the 2000 rail plan?
I think you would be happier in Houston. It is way bigger, amenity rich and cosmopolitan and you seem not to value the things that might make Austin a reasonable trade off. You can always drive up for a weekend when you want more natural beauty?
Thank you. I guess I do deserve the slack considering I am telling Austinites to grow their city and I had no idea they took it that personally. I think the city's development is great and is making the city twice as beautiful and desirable. The type of development I saw south of Lamar was the kind of development I assumed you guys tolerated; hip, trendy, etc. Not the type of soulless corporate development of Houston and Dallas, which is not what I saw in Austin. Austin's new development is still eclectic and aesthetically pleasing albeit very much catered to trendy yuppie techies.
But is that all the city is for? I mean you do have to account for all the other new people in town and others who may want the city to grow? Is everyone there just pining for the days of Linklater's 90s Austin? I doubt it. And growth / = Dallas. I don't know why that is the first thing people think of.
I find it wild that most Houston natives welcome the growth in Houston but Austinites don't welcome it there. Houston has been invaded by NYers as much as you guys have been by Californians and both cities are being influenced by this influx. I love that Houston is developing into a major city and it's starting to remind me of something akin to Chicago in some ways. Uptown in completely unrecognizable and looks like it's own city it's so massive. But at the same time, Houstonians find the city no longer friendly and incredibly aggressive. So that I lament but will take it for the growth.
I guess Austinites just aren't loving the trade offs, eh? But your culture and vibe is different from Houston. You have WAY friendlier people, it's more laid back and the development hasn't curbed that, at least that's not what I gathered at all being there. I just assumed it would grow into something bigger and better while still retaining it's image and culture. But I am assuming you guys think there is no way to keep both? Growth will just lead to inevitable destruction of Austin's soul?
My impression of Dallas from having family there and visiting frequently is that it is very focused on money and appearance, and it is full of strip malls with chain restaurants and brand new cars and nowhere nice to hike.
Depends on the side of town you're on. Dallas is WAY more diverse than Austin. You simply can't generalize the city. Dallas has neighborhoods that are eclectic, gritty, "soulful," as well as some that can be described as a barrio, ghetto, or upscale. The values of those that live in Preston Hollow are a lot different than those in the Bishop Arts/North Oak Cliff neighborhoods. Deep Ellum is covered in murals and graffiti art, while Uptown is devoid of it. Downtown is becoming a bit less corporate than its 80s legacy.
The chain restaurants and strip malls are more sizeable because the city/metro is WAY bigger than metro Austin. If metro Austin was the size of DFW, then you'd see an overabundance of the same. There's a lot of local businesses and walkable business districts in Dallas (more than Austin I might add).
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