Student arrested for assaulting teacher over cell phone (live, costs)

[TexasHorseLady]

I asked this before and am still looking for an answer (unless I missed it). Granted that felony charges are inappropriate, what WOULD be appropriate that would get the point across to this young man (because at 17, he IS a young man, not a child, no matter what the law says) and, most likely, his parents, that that kind of reaction is entirely inappropriate and, if allowed to continue, could very likely wind up with someone seriously injured or dead and him in jail for a LONG time unless he gets his overweening sense of entitlement under control? Do you think any kind of jail time is appropriate, even a few days to let him see where he's headed? If not (and I can see arguments against that), what IS a serious enough punishment to get his attention, do you think?

The teacher, by the way, did not punch the student in the face. She enforced the rules of the school that he knew applied to him as well as the rest of the students.

[loves2read]

frankly if you have a student who is this belligerant over a teacher taking a phone away I think jail time would basically reinforce the idea that he is mistreated by society and reinforce his idea that he is above the law
he needs real counseling about what IS appropriate behavior--and I am talking some long-term time because I think there are lots of other issues driving this behavior--not simply having his phone confiscated

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

what IS a serious enough punishment to get his attention, do you think?

How about a week long suspension from school, inelgibility for any sports teams / extra curricular activities for the semester and a letter of apology to the teacher?

I'm sure some will argue that he needs to be confined to prison, however, I think what I suggested above is reasonable under the circumstances.

Handle school problems in school... Unless a real crime has been committed realize that kids make mistakes, scrap the zero tolerance BS (which really is zero common sense) and stop blowing every event up in to a crime.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Oh please, give me a break.

Do you think if it had been a male teacher in the first place, same set of circumstances, that the kid would be charged with a felony, or that it would even have made the news? I don't think so.

Men and woman are different, and it shows up in encounters such as this. Call it sexist or whatever, but it's a fact. Society reacts differently based on gender, and also ethnic class, sexual orientation, etc. We see it in the news every day.

Had it been the wrestling coach teaching a history class, none of this would even be known to the public.

Steve

Steve, you may be right. But what that means is that this young man thinks that it's entirely okay to behave this way to someone who he perceives as weaker than he is for whatever reason, and THAT is something he needs to learn is not the case - for his own good, as well as society's. So playing to that perception on his part by calling in a male teacher is not going to solve the situation in the long run and may, in fact, even encourage it to occur again in future in even worse situations.

[austin-steve]

Granted that felony charges are inappropriate, what WOULD be appropriate that would get the point across to this young man (because at 17, he IS a young man, not a child, no matter what the law says) and, most likely, his parents, that that kind of reaction is entirely inappropriate

I think this is where we might see eye to eye. I think the punishment should be fairly harsh and significant (within the school discipline system, not the criminal justice system). There should be zero tolerance for laying hands on a teacher. Since we don't know the family history, history of other behavior problems with this student, history of the teacher (yes, I'd want to know if she experiences a higher than normal amount of trouble with students), etc., it's hard to say where in the spectrum of possibilities the appropriate punishment would be, but I think it should:

1) Send a clear and succinct message to other students.
2) Provide an opportunity for this student to contemplate his choices and actions.
3) Provide some anger management, if that's deemed helpful by councilors and school personnel.
4) He should be banned from carrying a cell phone for the remained of the school year. If he needs to make a call, he can walk to the office and ask politely to use the phone.

Steve

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

I think this is where we might see eye to eye. I think the punishment should be fairly harsh and significant (within the school discipline system, not the criminal justice system). There should be zero tolerance for laying hands on a teacher. Since we don't know the family history, history of other behavior problems with this student, history of the teacher (yes, I'd want to know if she experiences a higher than normal amount of trouble with students), etc., it's hard to say where in the spectrum of possibilities the appropriate punishment would be, but I think it should:

1) Send a clear and succinct message to other students.
2) Provide an opportunity for this student to contemplate his choices and actions.
3) Provide some anger management, if that's deemed helpful by councilors and school personnel.
4) He should be banned from carrying a cell phone for the remained of the school year. If he needs to make a call, he can walk to the office and ask politely to use the phone.

Steve

Sounds good to me. And I do recognize that the teacher could have issues (been there, done that with my own, and when I pointed that out - the teacher in question had had more major issues occur in her own life in one year than anyone should have to deal with from the deaths of two family members to having her house burglarized and everything in between which made it clear she had too much on her plate), the school was, to me, surprisingly responsive.

But teacher or no, that young man needs to learn how to cope with things better. That's one of the things that he's in school to learn in the first place, after all.

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Steve, you may be right. But what that means is that this young man thinks that it's entirely okay to behave this way to someone who he perceives as weaker than he is for whatever reason, and THAT is something he needs to learn is not the case - for his own good, as well as society's. So playing to that perception on his part by calling in a male teacher is not going to solve the situation in the long run and may, in fact, even encourage it to occur again in future in even worse situations.

I see your point, but as human beings we all assess risk levels and others instinctively and subconsciously, through the reptilian portion of our brains, based on the physical form and size confronting us. And yes, gender is part of the assessment. We can't be educated or sensitized out of basic animal instincts entirely.

An Alpha Male (which this student seemed to be taking the role of) will more likely submit to one whom he judges to be of higher physical rank/authority than him. In this particular instance, I don't think a second female teacher would have caused him to snap into line as readily as would a uniformed school cop or another male, though it may have if he perceived a "pack" coming at him.

These are well studied human behaviors. Why do you think they had consultants trying to turn Al Gore into an "Alpha Male" during his presidential campaign? Because we as humans respond and accept/reject the same messages/threats differently depending on the messenger. AG came across as too sensitive and "weak" in focus groups.

This is also why actors such as Tommy Lee Jones, Harrison Ford, Bruce Willis and Arnold Schwarzenegger can play roles that Adam Sandler, Jim Carrey, or Jerry Seinfeld would never be able to pull off.

We'll never see a Don Knotts type playing the Terminator, Robin Williams will never be James Bond, and testosterone driven young males will always feel instinctively less threatened by females than they are other males.

Steve

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Oh please, give me a break.

Do you think if it had been a male teacher in the first place, same set of circumstances, that the kid would be charged with a felony, or that it would even have made the news? I don't think so.

Men and woman are different, and it shows up in encounters such as this. Call it sexist or whatever, but it's a fact. Society reacts differently based on gender, and also ethnic class, sexual orientation, etc. We see it in the news every day.

Had it been the wrestling coach teaching a history class, none of this would even be known to the public.

Steve

Yes, men and women are different in many ways, but a female teacher should be able to handle confiscating a phone. Your comment IS sexist and her running to get a male teacher to handle confiscating a phone just will enforce these types of sexist beliefs. So please, Steve, give ME a break. As far as a felony goes, a public servant is a public servant and that is what took this act of aggression to the level of a felony.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

As far as a felony goes, a public servant is a public servant and that is what took this act of aggression to the level of a felony.

Right. Heaven forbid we should use actual judgement. But I guess using actual judgment requires critical analysis, a bit of risk, and some empathy for both sides. It's much easier to go with the maximum / most severe consequence every time. None of that thinkin' and booklearnin' required.

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

Yes, men and women are different in many ways, but a female teacher should be able to handle confiscating a phone. Your comment IS sexist and her running to get a male teacher to handle confiscating a phone just will enforce these types of sexist beliefs. So please, Steve, give ME a break. As far as a felony goes, a public servant is a public servant and that is what took this act of aggression to the level of a felony.

You didn't answer the question.

Do you think if it had been a male teacher in the first place, same set of circumstances, that the kid would be charged with a felony, or that it would even have made the news?

Yes, men and women are different in many ways, but a female teacher should be able to handle confiscating a phone.

But she wasn't able to handle it. What's your point, really then.

Steve