Austin growth will absolutely overwhelm roads and highways starting in 2011 - new study (construction, living)

[Zzyzx]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

It reminds me of the people complaining about having taxes go to schools when they have no children.

My problem is that people with kids are entitled to a tax break. This has never made sense to me. Shouldn't people who use the system be the last people entitled to an exemption. I guess the philosophy is that people with higher incomes and or no children are supposed to flip the bill for the rest of the country. Okey dokey

[capcat]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

Most of the roads we drive on were built decades ago so none of us paid for the initial capital outlay. I think this argument is somewhat absurd. It reminds me of the people complaining about having taxes go to schools when they have no children. Of course, plenty of other people paid taxes to support education when they WERE going to school and not paying taxes. No matter where you live in this city, at one time the roads were new and someone had to pay for them, likely years ago, and those someones are not necessarily using them.

Roads have to be maintained daily and changed to handle changing traffic patterns and volume. Initial capital outlay as the expense is an over-simplification.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by capcat

Roads have to be maintained daily and changed to handle changing traffic patterns and volume. Initial capital outlay as the expense is an over-simplification.

This whole discussion started because a person wrote that she didn't feel like she should have to pay taxes to build new roads or widen existing ones because people decided that they would live outside of town and now needed a way to get to their jobs. My point, and I probably could have been clearer, is that at one time her house, in what is now considered central austin, was out in the boonies and someone had to foot the bill to build the roads to where her house is.

A lot of people decide that the clock begins and stops when they have arrived.

[senor_jt]

Originally Posted by capcat

Roads have to be maintained daily and changed to handle changing traffic patterns and volume. Initial capital outlay as the expense is an over-simplification.

Right on, capcat. Maintenance is an ongoing expense. I had the pleasure of attending a presentation last night put on by the heads of a couple of Austin city departments responsible for some of that maintenance. Yes, there is some commingling of county/federal workers/funds to carry out some of this work but you can look up DPW and see what they do with their budget. CptnRn has a point that can't be so easily dismissed.

For those interested, Austin's relatively new Transportation Dept(separated from DPW) is quite honest about some of the neglect I've read about on this board. Historically, the City's attention to strategic transportation system growth has been lacking. Ahem. Not so, anymore! Austin will proactively reach out to county/state/federal transport planners and offer an affirmative vision of how regional transport arteries can best plugin to the City's efforts. And vice versa.

"Soon", they'll be reaching out to the public to solicit input and guidance to amend their own knowledge of "issues" around town. And addressing them within financial and functional limits.

I dunno if this saves us from gridlock in 2011 but a few positive points can be seen: there is awareness and some plan of action by the City and its experts.

[capcat]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

This whole discussion started because a person wrote that she didn't feel like she should have to pay taxes to build new roads or widen existing ones because people decided that they would live outside of town and now needed a way to get to their jobs. My point, and I probably could have been clearer, is that at one time her house, in what is now considered central austin, was out in the boonies and someone had to foot the bill to build the roads to where her house is.

A lot of people decide that the clock begins and stops when they have arrived.

I believe her area is Northwest Hills or Westover Hills. To my recollection, those were within the city limits and part of the tax base when they were built. It's not as if people moved there to escape city taxes. I remember when that area was built. They were expensive homes that people paid a premium to live in (like maybe a $35,000 price tag ). It was served by Balcones Dr, Anderson Lane and Steck Ave. Mopac was added years later to accommodate traffic which had previously entered the city from 35 and neighborhoods to the north via FM 1325.

Others did move to what was the "boondocks" at the time, my in-laws for example. They bought there for the purpose of more home for the money and cheaper taxes. That's not why people moved to areas like Northwest Hills.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by capcat

I believe her area is Northwest Hills or Westover Hills. To my recollection, those were within the city limits and part of the tax base when they were built. It's not as if people moved there to for cheaper property taxes. I remember when that area was built. They were expensive homes that people paid a premium to live in. It was served by Balcones Dr, Anderson Lane and Steck Blvd. Mopac was added years later to accommodate traffic which had previously entered the city via FM 1325. It split neighborhoods and brought about the demolishment of homes.

YES, BUT SHE LIKELY WAS NOT PAYING TAXES AT THAT TIME. Somebody else paid earlier. That's my point. Just like other people earlier paid for my current use of Mopac, 360, and I-35. I live in city limits right now, I have accepted that as part of living in this community I will be paying for roads here, roads that bring people in from further out. I could be an agoraphobe that never leaves my house and consequently never personally uses the roads and I will still be paying taxes for them. One thing for this person or any other person who complains about having their taxes paying for new roads should consider that the trucks delivering to his/her local grocery store use those roads, the gasoline trucks that deliver gas to her station use those roads, etc. My point is that this idea that I've got mine, so no more taxes, let's stop the clock and further development, is weak.

[TexasHorseLady]

Just curious. What about tourists? What about UT students who didn't grow up here and whose parents don't own property in the city and thus don't pay property taxes in Travis County?

[capcat]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

YES, BUT SHE LIKELY WAS NOT PAYING TAXES AT THAT TIME. Somebody else paid earlier. That's my point. Just like other people earlier paid for my current use of Mopac, 360, and I-35. I live in city limits right now, I have accepted that as part of living in this community I will be paying for roads here, roads that bring people in from further out. I could be an agoraphobe that never leaves my house and consequently never personally uses the roads and I will still be paying taxes for them. One thing for this person or any other person who complains about having their taxes paying for new roads should consider that the trucks delivering to his/her local grocery store use those roads, the gasoline trucks that deliver gas to her station use those roads, etc. My point is that this idea that I've got mine, so no more taxes, let's stop the clock and further development, is weak.

Of course not, she likely wasn't even born then. But her parents may have. However, I can see the points that CptnRn made earlier. I'll leave it at that. As to your other point, as consumers, we all indirectly pay for transportation costs for our food and other items. It is ultimately passed on to each of us. Just as renters, and therefore students, pay property taxes. Some parents even buy condos and homes for their children. Those people pay property tax.

Tourists, I'm guessing nightly hotel rates are adjusted for business property tax increases, and I'm not sure what is paid for by hotel/entertainment taxes.

[austinite45]

Originally Posted by artsyguy

Pseudo-democracy is a good word.

and US corporate masters and politicians have been pretty good at doing it.

heck, they have even succeeded at exporting it under the guise of "democracy"

[Driftwood1]

Very well put Jenni.
I would add that the notion that Austin can choke off growth by letting its infrastructure fail is flawed. Until its as bad or worse than where the people come from, Austin will keep growing, and its got a long way to go.

Originally Posted by Jennibc

This whole discussion started because a person wrote that she didn't feel like she should have to pay taxes to build new roads or widen existing ones because people decided that they would live outside of town and now needed a way to get to their jobs. My point, and I probably could have been clearer, is that at one time her house, in what is now considered central austin, was out in the boonies and someone had to foot the bill to build the roads to where her house is.

A lot of people decide that the clock begins and stops when they have arrived.