What is the most popular religion in Austin? (Happy: live, moving)

[ATX Wahine]

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

It then grew into a whole "jaybrown80 is allowed to say this and that" argument.

No, it didn't. Nobody in this thread at any time has mandated anything that you are allowed or not allowed to say.

I'm done here. You are clearly not capable of an honest conversation on this topic so I'm not going to participate any further. You however are still free, as you have been throughout this thread, to continue saying absolutely anything else that you like on the subject.

[Jennibc]

Your comments

"Typical theist response. ...Didn't your kind have a similar test in Salem, in the 1600's? If she drowned she proved she was a christian, if she floated, you killed her as a witch? Either way, not so great for her. Guess you Christians get the upper hand in both of your little "tests"?

I guess it scares me that theists still have this opinion of everyone that doesn't believe in god. From 1692 to 2009, christians still have the same "solution" to everyone that doesn't agree with them. And Christians wonder why everyone dislikes them so much. You Christians usually hide this opinion in public, but I guess when protected by the anonymity of the internet, OneJackson is showing his true Christians colors. Join or die." (Italics added)

seemed like very broad generalizations, that's all. I think you are wrong to generalize. I think it's fine that you pointed out someone else's argument was nonsense, just as I pointed out that you were making sweeping and broad generalizations. I believe that if people posit their ideas on the internet, they must be strong enough to handle criticism. I thought OneJackson's argument was a bit silly, and I rolled my eyes, but you pounced on ALL Christians, even ones that would have found his argument kind of silly. Imagine if someone got on here and started writing things like "Typical Jew response" or "you Muslims usually hide this opinion" People would rightfully call you on it and some would even accuse you of hate speech.

I am all about consistency.

[JayBrown80]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine

No, it didn't. Nobody in this thread at any time has mandated anything that you are allowed or not allowed to say.

I'm done here. You are clearly not capable of an honest conversation on this topic so I'm not going to participate any further. You however are still free, as you have been throughout this thread, to continue saying absolutely anything else that you like on the subject.

Isn't this the 2nd time that you said you were done with this thread? Going to post again and go for the hat trick?

You said many times that I should not speak in generalizations, whether or not I was speaking in generalizations at the time. How is that not mandating what I am saying? If you want to get into quibbles about honesty, one could say you were dishonest in stating you were done posting on this thread, and then posting again less than an hour later. I don't have to follow norcalwhine's rules of internet debate.

[JayBrown80]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

Your comments

"Typical theist response. ...Didn't your kind have a similar test in Salem, in the 1600's? If she drowned she proved she was a christian, if she floated, you killed her as a witch? Either way, not so great for her. Guess you Christians get the upper hand in both of your little "tests"?

I guess it scares me that theists still have this opinion of everyone that doesn't believe in god. From 1692 to 2009, christians still have the same "solution" to everyone that doesn't agree with them. And Christians wonder why everyone dislikes them so much. You Christians usually hide this opinion in public, but I guess when protected by the anonymity of the internet, OneJackson is showing his true Christians colors. Join or die." (Italics added)

seemed like very broad generalizations, that's all. I think you are wrong to generalize. I think it's fine that you pointed out someone else's argument was nonsense, just as I pointed out that you were making sweeping and broad generalizations. I believe that if people posit their ideas on the internet, they must be strong enough to handle criticism. I thought OneJackson's argument was a bit silly, and I rolled my eyes, but you pounced on ALL Christians, even ones that would have found his argument kind of silly. Imagine if someone got on here and started writing things like "Typical Jew response" or "you Muslims usually hide this opinion" People would rightfully call you on it and some would even accuse you of hate speech.

I am all about consistency.

Keep in mind though that I was speaking specifically to OneJackson and his argument. I then later, based on your correct criticism, restated my point to say "all christians who preach hate like OneJackson" and not "all christians". I could have just gone back and changed the post pretending it never happened, but instead, I left my mistake there, and in another post acknowledged it and clarified what I wanted to say.

And to be perfectly frank, to use your examples. If someone said "Shalom" and I said "typical jew response" then that would not be a generalization. Shalom is a jewish response. I might sound anti-semetic, true, but I am not making a generalization.

When OneJackson, as a Christian, says "kill yourself to prove god doesn't exist", then I could legitimately say that that is a TYPICAL theist response, and could provide you with many historical examples, from the beggining of recorded history all the way up to last week, to back up this statement. Now, not ALL theists are responsible for the crusades, or the salem witch trials, or suicide bombings, but all crusades, salem witch trials, and sucide bombings are performed by theists. You can point out that theists made large contributions to architecture, to music, to societal advancements. That would also be true.

If you are REALLY being consistent, like you profess, then you have to accept the good with the bad. "kill yourself for god/allah/yaweh" IS a TYPICAL theist response. "Go in peace and love and serve the lord" is ALSO a typical theist response. I didn't make a generalization, I stated the truth.

"Does this make my butt look big" is a typical female response. If I read that in a book, I would assume that the character stating it is a female. That is not generalizing. When I read someone say "Kill yourself to prove there is a god" then It's not a stretch to go "hmmmm, he must be a theist"

[centralaustinite]

Man, where is Trainwreck when a thread really needs him!

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by centralaustinite

Man, where is Trainwreck when a thread really needs him!

What? You don't think this relates to Austin?

[JayBrown80]

Originally Posted by centralaustinite

Man, where is Trainwreck when a thread really needs him!

Are we allowed to talk about Trainwreck? I am always scared. I am surprised it went as long as it did, it has been almost 2 days since I was told to kill myself. Oh well, we got some mileage out of it.

[intmd8r]

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

Thank you Runemaster for being the Christian that comes forward and tells me how Christians reconcile the good parts of the bible with the not so nice parts. I would posit that Catholic Churches read John 14 every service, and not Matthew 22, so we can see which one they feel has more weight. Irregardless, you agree that telling people to kill themselves is not the most "christian" way to prove there is a god?

Catholicism is a religion. Being a Christian is not about religion, it's about being a follower of Jesus Christ. Religions are full of man-made laws, which Jesus died to abolish.

That being said, it is indeed stated in the bible that the only way to the Father is through the Son. Now, preaching fire and brimstone and scare tactics is not what Christianity is about and if they do that in the Catholic (or any other religious denominational church) I believe it will turn people AWAY from God, not towards Him. The bible as a whole, not just the scary passages, should be taught in church.

And no, I don't believe that telling someone to kill themselves is the most Christian way to prove there is a god, but I don't believe he actually wanted you to kill yourself, either. I believe he was just pointing out the science of living without a beating heart.

[thesonofgray]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine

MANY people choose not to defend their faith, particluarly with an obvious atheist/agnostic. No one is required to profess or defend their faith with strangers and for many people it's a very private thing in 'real life', much less on the internet. Like politics, it's a subject that many people are simply not comfortable discussing. Considering what a heated debate it will always ensure, it shouldn't come as a surprise that people shy away from it. Likewise, I don't see many other atheists or agnostics coming to the rescue of the thread, either.

I think it's a very sad fact that many people would rather not choose to openly debate their faith and/or religious views. I personally believe that this is due to 1) people not really knowing the details of their religion, since they most likely just grew up following it and it "just was" and "just is" or 2) people would rather just not go into it since it really all boils down to "I believe X because I want to." There's no evidence of anything, there's no justification for anything - there's only "I believe because I want to."

The second item above, I think, ties to my belief that humans innately gravitate towards religion, as they always have throughout human history. People are afraid of the unknown, so they abolish the unknown with a "known" universal all-knowing omnipresent being, which will "take care" of everything in the end. Religion and faith are ultimately about comfort - the feeling that everything will be ok in the end, even if you don't understand or comprehend what "the end" will bring. Religion and faith are also about worldly power and control of humans and by humans, as is obvious by a simple scroll of religious history, although I think it really boils down to "knowing" the unknown (or at least thinking you do).

My point: I think people don't like to debate or defend their religion not because it's "personal" or "private", but because they truly can't in an honest and logical debate, and they rather like believing what they believe without question or inquisition.

Originally Posted by Runemaster

Read Matthew 22:37-39, which trumps John 14 all day long.

Who are you to say a certain Bible verse trumps another? According to Christian belief, the Bible is the word of God (although completely transcribed by humans hundreds of years after any of the events actually happened - or were said to have happened), so God telling his followers to enjoy their "spoils" of war (read: women, children, slaves) in less than appropriate ways is - according to Christianity - as important a part of the Bible as Jesus commanding his followers to not commit adultery. Is there any part of Christianity that says otherwise?

Originally Posted by intmd8r

Catholicism is a religion. Being a Christian is not about religion, it's about being a follower of Jesus Christ. Religions are full of man-made laws, which Jesus died to abolish.

Christianity is a religion. And most "laws" in the Bible were based on basic social norms of that era (read: man-made customs, most likely formed by many many religions that came before Christianity), although some would have you think the opposite was true.

[intmd8r]

Originally Posted by thesonofgray

Christianity is a religion. And most "laws" in the Bible were based on basic social norms of that era (read: man-made customs, most likely formed by many many religions that came before Christianity), although some would have you think the opposite was true.

True Christianity is not about organized religions and the laws that come with it. Jesus came to REMOVE organized religion. The laws of the old testament and man's laws that set us apart from God were abolished when Jesus died; that was the entire point of it!

Bible churches teach completely different messages than denominational churches; they teach God's word (all of it, not just the fire & brimstone) and show you how it's relevant to life today.

I grew up in a Lutheran church and it was boring as all get out and a chore to attend. That's not what it's supposed to be, per the bible. I didn't know Jesus or anything he taught and I didn't improve upon who I am as a person even one little bit from attending that church.