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You give up all your Freedoms to live in fear. The Countries and US States that are the most open are the ones that have weathered this storm the best.
You'll never stop Covid just like you'll never stop the Flu. You'll let your Politicians dictate.
Might as well be Russia or China.
The thing that made the hard border worth it in this part of the world was the low death toll. Now of course the death toll across the world has been inflated to some extent as we seen In the UK but it's still very high and Australia and New Zealand has managed to avoid that while living life for the most part relatively normal apart from a few lockdowns and restrictions In certain regions.
Also what was the death toll for the most open states compared to those with the most restrictions? Was there much difference?
The worry for me is the moving of the goal posts, for example here in WA the border now isn't going to open until vaccination rates hit 90%. The reasoning behind this is because the hospital system has been so under-funded that it can barely cope as it is. Just a few months ago hospitals had to cancel electictive survey for a month just so they could catch up. This in a state where the Premier Brags how great the economy is doing and regularly getting involved in immature rants about how WA is propping up the country
They did NOTHING for two years and now facing the reality that even highly vaccinated countries are facing rising hospital cases and deaths it means when the border opens cases are coming in and when the vaccine starts to wane hospital cases will explode until most have the booster. The vaccine wasn't the Magic bullet some Premier's expected so they are still very fearful
There's a new Variant coming your way. Your old vaccine is useless, the booster is useless. You'll need new shots or you will go to containment centers.
There's a new Variant coming your way. Your old vaccine is useless, the booster is useless. You'll need new shots or you will go to containment centers.
No Freedoms for you.
Yea I read that. The media hyping it up as usual in their quest for a never ending crisis. Here's hoping it comes to nothing and the planned border openings continue as normal
Yea I read that. The media hyping it up as usual. Here's hoping it comes to nothing and the planned border openings continue as normal
It would seem the most alarmed individuals expressing their fears are the choirboys on here whining about lost freedoms.
I'm of an age where people got drafted to go fight in a foreign war of questionable motive - that was some freedom lost right there but now you're whining about others having to make a small sacrifice to protect themselves and others from a debilitating illness that has killed over 5 million people so far.
Look after your own back yard and it's plethora of lost individual freedoms before castigating other countries over what you merely perceive to be the loss of theirs.
It would seem the most alarmed individuals expressing their fears are the choirboys on here whining about lost freedoms.
I'm of an age where people got drafted to go fight in a foreign war of questionable motive - that was some freedom lost right there but now you're whining about others having to make a small sacrifice to protect themselves and others from a debilitating illness that has killed over 5 million people so far.
Look after your own back yard and it's plethora of lost individual freedoms before castigating other countries over what you merely perceive to be the loss of theirs.
Who is this aimed at? You do know your on the Australia and New Zealand sub where many on here posting are either citizens or residents of either country. Why are you assuming otherwise?
Don't compare the draft used In times of War to covid. Covid is nowhere near the same crisis of a World War and the last time the US used a draft to send young men to a War many thought it so unjust the entire country rose up to end it. It therefore works against your argument not for it.
Also no-one is crying about freedoms, people are just lamenting over a substanial industry that has been left in ashes with so many businesses gone, job losses and no end in sight. We are allowed to grieve for such people, we don't have to bow down to a government's inept decision everytime and say thank you sir/ma'am. We are allowed to disagree.
Also the only people afraid are those who are still pushing for lock-downs and border closures even after the population are mostly vaccinated. I get it, lets be honest it wasn't hard for some people at all. Working from home, staying home watching Netflix while getting paid by a government subsidy. This can in no way be compared to the selfless sacrifice many who went to war made. That's why so many are happy with these lockdowns. It isn't a sacrifice to make and for those who aren't eligible for government subsidies and who are left penniless, you say oh well it's for the best. I wonder how many of you who think this way would still be ok if the government give you NOTHING. Not one penny and locked down as long as it did, I can guarantee those people so easily posting "stay safe, stay indoors" on their social media status would be saying something else entirely when they can't put food on the table.
Every action a government should make should be proportionate. Hard borders and Lock-downs saved the lives of many people on a national scale and I for one benefitted from that. It was the right choice for more isolated countries. On the flip side on a global scale it pushed just under 200 million people into extreme poverty therefore should we really be so proud? This is something in time we will find out.
This is why I laugh when the same media organisation's that pushed for nationalistic responses In the best interests of their people are now calling for nations to disregard such nationalistic interests and make national sacrifices in regards to a more global problem, climate change. Look after your own backyard you say apart from when it comes to climate change, then we ought to poke our nose into our neighbors backyard.
We live in a global society. Locking up and batten the hatches might seem perfectly plausible but understand you can't just put the breaks on the ENTIRE world and think there isn't going to be a fallout. The same as climate change, we live in an integrated world. We need each other, billions depend on each other just to put food on the table. When we have a global crisis it is OUR problem not their problem and we should think that way at all times rather than just look out for our own selfish interests disregarding the other. As I said before there is widespread backlash from New Zealand's struggling tourism industry which I posted as it will mean 2022 is off the cards. People in this industry will suffer
Who is this aimed at? You do know your on the Australia and New Zealand sub where many on here posting are either citizens or residents of either country. Why are you assuming otherwise?
Don't compare the draft used In times of War to covid. Covid is nowhere near the same crisis of a World War and the last time the US used a draft to send young men to a War many thought it so unjust the entire country rose up to end it. It therefore works against your argument not for it.
Also no-one is crying about freedoms, people are just lamenting over a substanial industry that has been left in ashes with so many businesses gone, job losses and no end in sight. We are allowed to grieve for such people, we don't have to bow down to a government's inept decision everytime and say thank you sir/ma'am. We are allowed to disagree.
Also the only people afraid are those who are still pushing for lock-downs and border closures even after the population are mostly vaccinated. I get it, lets be honest it wasn't hard for some people at all. Working from home, staying home watching Netflix while getting paid by a government subsidy. This can in no way be compared to the selfless sacrifice many who went to war made. That's why so many are happy with these lockdowns. It isn't a sacrifice to make and for those who aren't eligible for government subsidies and who are left penniless, you say oh well it's for the best. I wonder how many of you who think this way would still be ok if the government give you NOTHING. Not one penny and locked down as long as it did, I can guarantee those people so easily posting "stay safe, stay indoors" on their social media status would be saying something else entirely when they can't put food on the table.
Every action a government should make should be proportionate. Hard borders and Lock-downs saved the lives of many people on a national scale and I for one benefitted from that. It was the right choice for more isolated countries. On the flip side on a global scale it pushed just under 200 million people into extreme poverty therefore should we really be so proud? This is something in time we will find out.
This is why I laugh when the same media organisation's that pushed for nationalistic responses In the best interests of their people are now calling for nations to disregard such nationalistic interests and make national sacrifices in regards to a more global problem, climate change. Look after your own backyard you say apart from when it comes to climate change, then we ought to poke our nose into our neighbors backyard.
We live in a global society. Locking up and batten the hatches might seem perfectly plausible but understand you can't just put the breaks on the ENTIRE world and think there isn't going to be a fallout. The same as climate change, we live in an integrated world. We need each other, billions depend on each other just to put food on the table. When we have a global crisis it is OUR problem not their problem and we should think that way at all times rather than just look out for our own selfish interests disregarding the other. As I said before there is widespread backlash from New Zealand's struggling tourism industry which I posted as it will mean 2022 is off the cards. People in this industry will suffer
In response to you; not everyone on here is Australian or from New Zealand and not everything even they espouse originated in either of those countries but has it's roots eleswhere.
Secondly stop trying to depict those advocating common sense as all being fear ridden.
Humans have shown they can put the brakes on an entire world and have indeed done so at least twice with surviving both those incidents.
I am sure the tourism industry in every country with mandated lock-downs have suffered but in no greater fashion than some other "industries" have suffered through world-wide governmental actions. People are losing their livlihoods every day, everywhere. It does not equate to a loss of life.
I am sure many places around the world, whether it be Taormina in Sicily, Queenstown in New Zealand or Cairns in Nth Queensland are finding opinions of the locals are becoming increasingly divided about the pandemic response.
If you do not travel much, have all your close family nearby and are not invested in the travel industry, you are probably much happier with border restrictions, as many in Western Australia still are.
If you are cut off from seeing your partner or close family, and or have an investment loan for a travel related business, you would be increasingly unhappy after two disruptive years. There is also the issue of businesses retaining or replacing staff when they are allowed to reopen. In North Queensland, when we were last able to visit there months ago, there was a massive shortage of qualified chefs, causing havoc in restaurants.
In response to you; not everyone on here is Australian or from New Zealand and not everything even they espouse originated in either of those countries but has it's roots eleswhere.
Secondly stop trying to depict those advocating common sense as all being fear ridden.
Humans have shown they can put the brakes on an entire world and have indeed done so at least twice with surviving both those incidents.
I am sure the tourism industry in every country with mandated lock-downs have suffered but in no greater fashion than some other "industries" have suffered through world-wide governmental actions. People are losing their livlihoods every day, everywhere. It does not equate to a loss of life.
As I said before you can't just put the breaks on the world economy and think things will be fine especially for developing countries. The UN stated that due to Covid and perpetuating lock-downs and restrictions 175 MILLION people would be forced into extreme poverty. In the UK alone due lockdowns the number is 2 million that will be pushed into poverty, a developed nation. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...s-into-poverty
Obviously millions would have been effected regardless but our actions made things much worse
So many just look through a nationalistic lense and ignore the damage we have done to a large chunk of the population apart from when it comes to climate change, then we ought to care on a global scale? On a global scale it was the most insane thing we could ever do. Even on a national scale while it saved MANY lives it has destroyed small business EVERYWHERE and increased poverty though in certain regions such as WA our isolation has meant a closed border has kept us relatively normal... for now as it has to open sometime and the hospital system is stressed to the max without Covid. Lock-downs are a sign of failure and after 2 years into this pandemic shouldn't we be expecting more from our governments? Some people really are so gripped by fear they are refusing to even question why after 2 years of a pandemic that very little funding has been put into a Healthcare system that will have to deal with covid Instead of continually paying people to sit at home. This is partly because so many didn't mind getting paid to stay home.
I feel your comment is less about consideration for issues affecting Australia and New Zealand and more about defending government policy whatever it may be which is why your comment never once addressed any specifics on this issue but rather went on a rant attacking those to respect the wishes of ANY government mandate and policy and worry about their own backyard. Don't you agree discussions like this are good?
As for tourism being effected everywhere. Yes it has been but surely you have an understanding that for most of the world people are able to travel again once vaccination rates got high enough. The tourism industry world-wide is bouncing back. What is worrying and sad for NZ is that even with the country vaccinated to 80-90%, vaccinated tourists will still have to self isolate in a country already gripped by covid. Also I get why NZ is doing this but I also feel it's a bit too far as does the tourism industry there. I'd advise you to read about their woes's as they make fair points.
Jacinda Adern is known for her irrational knee jerk policies in response to her alarmist Outlook. She in defense of her higher emissions tax being brought into effect next year falsely claimed that Toyota was bringing an electric SUV to the market next year meaning tradies and farmers have no excuse. Toyota immediately responded claiming her allegation is false, that they have no plans to bring an SUV to the market and called it irresponsible to demand everyone immediately stop buying non electric vehicles in a sociey not full ready for it.
Just remember if the vaccine works in line with a better funded Healthcare system then we shouldn't need to continue to destroy our industries in a bit to keep covid down in nations with a very high vaccination rate. If we did then this crisis would NEVER end.
Paddy234, thanks for your response to my post, however, I fully stand by what I said.
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Fair enough, we all have our own views and it's good we engage in discussion so we all learn from each other. Too many just stick to their own camps which doesn't help things. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. For this crisis to end
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On a global scale it was the most insane thing we could ever do. Even on a national scale while it saved MANY lives it has destroyed small business EVERYWHERE and increased poverty though in certain regions such as WA our isolation has meant a closed border has kept us relatively normal... for now as it has to open sometime and the hospital system is stressed to the max without Covid. Lock-downs are a sign of failure and after 2 years into this pandemic shouldn't we be expecting more from our governments? Some people really are so gripped by fear they are refusing to even question why after 2 years of a pandemic that very little funding has been put into a Healthcare system that will have to deal with covid Instead of continually paying people to sit at home. This is partly because so many didn't mind getting paid to stay home.
