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Depends on the charge time. If you can fill it up in 30 minutes or less.. I think that would be acceptable to most people. Frankly, because when they stop for fuel.. Usually there's also, grab some drinks, use the bathroom, etc, etc.. While someone might not spend 30 minutes.. It's certainly likely they're spending 15 minutes off the road.. Adding another 15 on that.. Acceptable.
Last summer, when I was in another discussion on this topic of EVs, I checked out the "Tesla Route Planner", and entered the start and stop points, for the destination of Myrtle Beach. Their site, similar to AAA, Mapquest, or Google Earth, then laid out the route. The only difference is that it both led me to their chargers, and also told me which ones to stop at, in order to keep the car reasonably charged.
Ironically, their plan had me stopping for 20-25 minutes, at a charge station, after only driving 90 minutes. This was to enable me to get to the next charge stop. 90 minutes?? I'm barely "settled in" at that point. And the real capper, is that when I got to MB, a MAJOR tourist location, they were showing only 5 charging stations (at that time), and 3 were located in hotels and only available to guests. So, if you're not a registered guest at one of those hotels, you're sharing 2 chargers with potentially HUNDREDS of other people!
And based on Tesla supplied data, cumulative charge time for the trip was approximately 2 hours, turning a 14 hour trip into a 16 hour trip. That, most likely, then turns it into a 2 day trip, with a hotel bill, for the extra night, adding to the cost.
Last summer, when I was in another discussion on this topic of EVs, I checked out the "Tesla Route Planner", and entered the start and stop points, for the destination of Myrtle Beach. Their site, similar to AAA, Mapquest, or Google Earth, then laid out the route. The only difference is that it both led me to their chargers, and also told me which ones to stop at, in order to keep the car reasonably charged.
Ironically, their plan had me stopping for 20-25 minutes, at a charge station, after only driving 90 minutes. This was to enable me to get to the next charge stop. 90 minutes?? I'm barely "settled in" at that point. And the real capper, is that when I got to MB, a MAJOR tourist location, they were showing only 5 charging stations (at that time), and 3 were located in hotels and only available to guests. So, if you're not a registered guest at one of those hotels, you're sharing 2 chargers with potentially HUNDREDS of other people!
And based on Tesla supplied data, cumulative charge time for the trip was approximately 2 hours, turning a 14 hour trip into a 16 hour trip. That, most likely, then turns it into a 2 day trip, with a hotel bill, for the extra night, adding to the cost.
Just over a 100 years ago, depending on conditions, a horse and buggy/coach could travel 20-30 miles on one trip before stopping for an extended period to let the horse rest. In a modern ICE car you could go nearly 15-20 times that in some vehicles without having to stop for fuel, so maybe 6 hours of driving non-stop? It took more than a few years to get to that range of travel in a personal vehicle.
In your example, you say you added 2 hours to your trip to stop to charge? Did you not stop to fill up with gas, go to the bathroom or eat meals in your ICE car? I agree, that you would beat the Tesla there.
What all these canaries in a coal mines are freaking out about is that it is going to take TIME to get all of this in place. It is going to get better. EV's will have longer ranges soon. EV's will charge faster soon. There will be more infrastructure soon. We are at the very beginning of this technology. The city of Myrtle Beach has 44 public charging station ports (Level 2 and Level 3) within 10 miles. 75% of the ports are level 2 charging ports and 54% of the ports offer FREE charges for your electric car. How many free gas pumps are there in MB?
As an early adopter, EV driver, you need to go into this knowing that you have to make some concessions in your driving style for now. It will get better, but meanwhile you will have a lot of fun driving an EV 95% of the time in your local area.
It is amazing how polarized this discussion has become and in a NASCAR forum where the original discussion was about the opinions on NASCAR embracing EV technology for the track.
In the automotive forum there are multiple threads where the pros and cons are being beaten to death back and forth amongst the posters.
Never in automotive history (with the exceptions of the introduction of catalytic converters and smog mandates) has there been so much angst among those in the automotive community.
We have enough political division in the US to now add the EV to the battle field. There are indeed pros and cons to both sides but for right now the black and white issues are distance capabilities, infrastructure support, and entry level pricing for the average American.
The smartest thing that should have been mandated was hybrid technology, where drivers still have the safety blanket of not having to rely on charging availability until infrastructure both with the power company’s and charging is fine tuned.
It is great to look back at how the automobile evolved but at the same time as it evolved it lured Americans into traveling farther from their homes given the freedom with highways and an abundance of gas.
This link below is a news article concerning conserving electricity with chargers being mentioned.
EV’s should continue to evolve at a realistic pace, mandates and environmental passions are going to push us to a technology that cannot be supported 100% until infrastructure is in place.
EVs are the future. Alternative power sources and methodology are being updated constantly. Oil and gas is fighting back hard, but it’s coming.
And someday, NASCAR will have EVs.
I agree.. It's the future.. But we're not in the future yet. That is my point.
Again, my argument is that two things need to happen.
1) The infrastructure needs to improve. From there being chargers as available as gas stations, meaning one on every corner pretty much, to the overall power grid being upgraded.
When a state signs legislation to ban gas vehicles and then says "Hey, don't charge your car so that we don't overload the power grid" in not so many words a few days later.. That's.. Not exactly something to instill confidence.
2) The range needs to be equivalent to a gas vehicle. And, this one, really, we're just a nose hair from being there. Certain vehicles are already there. Others, I'd say within 5 years, at most, should be there, other than specialty things.. I mean, I'm sure most saw the Ford Lightning video where towing, the thing had a range of about 80 miles on a full charge. There's applications where it's going to take much longer to get there, but, again.. Those are specialty.
Those two things HAVE to happen before there is widespread acceptance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtwinz
It is amazing how polarized this discussion has become and in a NASCAR forum where the original discussion was about the opinions on NASCAR embracing EV technology for the track.
In the automotive forum there are multiple threads where the pros and cons are being beaten to death back and forth amongst the posters.
Never in automotive history (with the exceptions of the introduction of catalytic converters and smog mandates) has there been so much angst among those in the automotive community.
We have enough political division in the US to now add the EV to the battle field. There are indeed pros and cons to both sides but for right now the black and white issues are distance capabilities, infrastructure support, and entry level pricing for the average American.
The smartest thing that should have been mandated was hybrid technology, where drivers still have the safety blanket of not having to rely on charging availability until infrastructure both with the power company’s and charging is fine tuned.
It is great to look back at how the automobile evolved but at the same time as it evolved it lured Americans into traveling farther from their homes given the freedom with highways and an abundance of gas.
Yeah.. This probably needs to end here.. However, the part I'll argue completely with you is "Mandate".. NOTHING good comes from mandates. We should know that by now after the past 2 years.
It is amazing how polarized this discussion has become and in a NASCAR forum where the original discussion was about the opinions on NASCAR embracing EV technology for the track.
In the automotive forum there are multiple threads where the pros and cons are being beaten to death back and forth amongst the posters.
Never in automotive history (with the exceptions of the introduction of catalytic converters and smog mandates) has there been so much angst among those in the automotive community.
We have enough political division in the US to now add the EV to the battle field. There are indeed pros and cons to both sides but for right now the black and white issues are distance capabilities, infrastructure support, and entry level pricing for the average American.
The smartest thing that should have been mandated was hybrid technology, where drivers still have the safety blanket of not having to rely on charging availability until infrastructure both with the power company’s and charging is fine tuned.
It is great to look back at how the automobile evolved but at the same time as it evolved it lured Americans into traveling farther from their homes given the freedom with highways and an abundance of gas.
Understand what you're saying, but in "NASCAR- speak", a current pitstop, for 4 tires and 12-15 gallons of fuel, takes about 14 seconds to complete. Unless they shorten the races to 2-250 miles, pit stops will HAVE to be included.
Can you change an EV battery, or give the "in-place battery" a reasonable charge in a comparable time??
I agree.. It's the future.. But we're not in the future yet. That is my point.
Again, my argument is that two things need to happen.
1) The infrastructure needs to improve. From there being chargers as available as gas stations, meaning one on every corner pretty much, to the overall power grid being upgraded.
When a state signs legislation to ban gas vehicles and then says "Hey, don't charge your car so that we don't overload the power grid" in not so many words a few days later.. That's.. Not exactly something to instill confidence.
2) The range needs to be equivalent to a gas vehicle. And, this one, really, we're just a nose hair from being there. Certain vehicles are already there. Others, I'd say within 5 years, at most, should be there, other than specialty things.. I mean, I'm sure most saw the Ford Lightning video where towing, the thing had a range of about 80 miles on a full charge. There's applications where it's going to take much longer to get there, but, again.. Those are specialty.
Those two things HAVE to happen before there is widespread acceptance.
Yeah.. This probably needs to end here.. However, the part I'll argue completely with you is "Mandate".. NOTHING good comes from mandates. We should know that by now after the past 2 years.
I agree totally Especially the news coming from out of California should be a reminder that forced technology comes with a price.
Understand what you're saying, but in "NASCAR- speak", a current pitstop, for 4 tires and 12-15 gallons of fuel, takes about 14 seconds to complete. Unless they shorten the races to 2-250 miles, pit stops will HAVE to be included.
Can you change an EV battery, or give the "in-place battery" a reasonable charge in a comparable time??
Again, we're looking at a sub-series. We're not talking about Cup going EV. At least, not anytime soon.
This is a new series that.. At least from what I see, will be along the lines of the truck series. With, perhaps even shorter distances. Which.. Hell, sometimes I think the distances are too short on that currently.
There are TONS of other questions that come to mind tho. Driver coolbox. Brake cooling fans.. Things that use power.. All of those will shorten the distance you can go..So, how will they deal with that?
Again, we're looking at a sub-series. We're not talking about Cup going EV. At least, not anytime soon.
This is a new series that.. At least from what I see, will be along the lines of the truck series. With, perhaps even shorter distances. Which.. Hell, sometimes I think the distances are too short on that currently.
There are TONS of other questions that come to mind tho. Driver coolbox. Brake cooling fans.. Things that use power.. All of those will shorten the distance you can go..So, how will they deal with that?
Also tires which are a huge issue always moving forward with the individual tracks and COT’s. Tesla’s I believe because of the added battery weights have unique tires. Engineering and design will have to factor all of this in for extended high speeds and track conditions.
Again, we're looking at a sub-series. We're not talking about Cup going EV. At least, not anytime soon.
This is a new series that.. At least from what I see, will be along the lines of the truck series. With, perhaps even shorter distances. Which.. Hell, sometimes I think the distances are too short on that currently.
There are TONS of other questions that come to mind tho. Driver coolbox. Brake cooling fans.. Things that use power.. All of those will shorten the distance you can go..So, how will they deal with that?
With regenerative braking, they won't need as much brake cooling, because the brakes themselves won't provide much of the braking force.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBtwinz
Also tires which are a huge issue always moving forward with the individual tracks and COT’s. Tesla’s I believe because of the added battery weights have unique tires. Engineering and design will have to factor all of this in for extended high speeds and track conditions.
Tesla tires are designed for low rolling resistance, not the weight of the cars.
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Especially the news coming from out of California should be a reminder that forced technology comes with a price.
