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Getting everything set up to charge the vehicle? "Hooking up and other complicated stuff?" What are you on about? This isn't astrophysics here. You get out, you plug it in just like you would any other appliance, and you walk away. Next morning you unplug it, get in, and drive off.
Just about to say the same thing... Plug goes into socket. People on this thread are just being dense or I guess they would rather fork over cash and waste time at the gas station.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover
The Volt is not going to collapse the electrical grid. Good grief. If they can build entire subdivisions across the country without collapsing the grid, a handful of cars isn't gonna do it either.
It wouldn't even come close. At MOST, running at 120v the draw is 8 amps. Thats nothing! I don't care if every family in the US had two of these things charging at night it isn't going to collapse anything.
Is this about electric cars in general or the Chevy volt? No doubt the Tesla roadster is a far superior vehicle, but way too expensive for most drivers. The Leaf will have maximum range of 100 miles. But the Volt has a backup gasoline engine so the 40 mile range does not limit your driving. It seems like the best of the three for someone who wants to try out an electric.
Getting everything set up to charge the vehicle? "Hooking up and other complicated stuff?" What are you on about? This isn't astrophysics here. You get out, you plug it in just like you would any other appliance, and you walk away. Next morning you unplug it, get in, and drive off.
The Volt is not going to collapse the electrical grid. Good grief. If they can build entire subdivisions across the country without collapsing the grid, a handful of cars isn't gonna do it either.
Both these points are true. The Volt uses a standard 115 volt house plug, unlike the EV1 that used a custom induction paddle.
And two things about the second point. Southern California did a study a few years back that showed that using smart meters and off pack charging (i.e. plugging in at home) cars that, like the Volt, only needs 8KwH to charge, could replace the entire fleet of private cars and not negatively affect the grid.
As to that note, theres no physical way to replace all the cars in the fleet within a 20 year period even if all the manufacturers ramped up to full production at the same time right now. You just can't make or deliver that many cars in a short time frame. We haven't done it with gasoline cars (anyone here think that all cars older than 20 years are off the road now and replaced with newer cars?). And thinking that the grid can't get smarter in that 20 year time frame is folly.
Can you at least get the facts straight? They paid back the loans not with new borrowed money but money they made at the exact same time the original loans were made. GM sold the government stock and then used the money from that stock sale to pay off part of the loans.
The government intends to recoupe all or most of their money when GM does an IPO and the government sells it's stock. Saying "they borrowed more to pay back the old loans" is not only wrong but displays that you know very little about finance.
Uh... hello... apparently YOU know very little... borrowed money is borrowed money regardless of whether it was new, old, or anything else... They "intend" to recoupe... well, nice that you have a crystal ball... care to make any other OPINIONS and try to pass them off as facts......
GM pays back government loans... with TARP funds?! | Washington Examiner (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/GM-pays-back-government-loans-with-TARP-funds-91915624.html - broken link)
If thecoalman was around he could explain it very well. I'll try, but might get it a bit wrong.
It's not my area of expertise, now if you wanted to discuss what the correct water temperature on a residential coal boiler should be I could be of some help.
As you suggested they mostly would be plugged in overnight during low demand. The amount of excess capacity overnight is substantial, I did read an article on how many of these cars could be charged overnight and they put a number on it but I forget what it was... it was substantial number and possibly enough for the entire nation. The problem I would foresee is people charging during peak hours.
A lot of places have lower rates at night. My Uncle for example has his hot water heater set on a timer to only run during those hours, they do all their clothes washing and anything else requiring a lot of hot water during that time. They have plenty of heated water during the day already heated and stored. I'm mentioning this because along the same lines one interesting suggestion I've read about these cars is they could partly solve the big problem of storage capacity, if the electricity generated at a plant isn't used they have no where to store it so *poof* it's gone. The scenario I read was you come home from work and plug your car in and charge it over night at the reduced rate. Suppose the next day you are not going to use your car, you can then use it to power your house or sell it back to the electric company. Sounds great in theory but if a lot of people did it the lower overnight rates would evaporate. Of course if you had a windmill or solar panels it would certainly serve as great storage medium too.
Last edited by thecoalman; 07-30-2010 at 06:29 AM..
It's not my area of expertise, now if you wanted to discuss what the correct water temperature on a residential coal boiler should be I could be of some help.
As you suggested they mostly would be plugged in overnight during low demand. The amount of excess capacity overnight is substantial, I did read an article on how many of these cars could be charged overnight and they put a number on it but I forget what it was... it was substantial number and possibly enough for the entire nation. The problem I would foresee is people charging during peak hours.
A lot of places have lower rates at night. My Uncle for example has his hot water heater set on a timer to only run during those hours, they do all their clothes washing and anything else requiring a lot of hot water during that time. They have plenty of heated water during the day already heated and stored. I'm mentioning this because along the same lines one interesting suggestion I've read about these cars is they could partly solve the big problem of storage capacity, if the electricity generated at a plant isn't used they have no where to store it so *poof* it's gone. The scenario I read was you come home from work and plug your car in and charge it over night at the reduced rate. Suppose the next day you are not going to use your car, you can then use it to power your house or sell it back to the electric company. Sounds great in theory but if a lot of people did it the lower overnight rates would evaporate. Of course if you had a windmill or solar panels it would certainly serve as great storage medium too.
Very interesting, I had no idea that was how it worked...so why is the plant generating power at night that isn't be used? Is there a reason they don't just "turn it off" or create less energy at night?
Very interesting, I had no idea that was how it worked...so why is the plant generating power at night that isn't be used? Is there a reason they don't just "turn it off" or create less energy at night?
In many places, they do power down the plant during off-peak hours, but it's not efficinet. it's actually better for the plant's efficincy to keep it running. Off peak electricity use actually costs the energy company less to generate even if more peopel used it. In fact, it woudl be to the energy compani'es benefit to reduce plant costs is people DID use more off-peak power.
A great solution right now would be when you buy a new home (or new-to-you home) would be to make sure solar panels are installed on it, adding the relatively minor cost to the 30 year mortgage payments. During the day, you'd either not use electricity from the grid, reducing your bill, or even selling it back to the electric company, offsetting your bill and reducing grid load, then charging your car at night FROM the grid at the reduced off-peak rates. You could still save more per month on electricity and "fuel" for your car than the slight additional monthly cost on your mortgage.
It doesn't look like a $40,000 car. The foundation is the same as the upcoming Chevy Cruze which will start at less than half the price of the Volt. Does the battery, electric motor, and gasoline generator engine cost over $20,000 alone? There was talk of GM making a Caddy vehicle with the same powertrain of the Volt. I'd believe the $40,000 price in a similiar sized Caddy but not a Chevy. A price of about $25,000 should have been the starting price. Perhaps the Volt would be a good buy for corporate or government fleets where they can install a bank of quick charge connections for their fleet vehicles.
I like the size and features of the Volt. If it wasn't for the price, I'd consider getting the vehicle for myself. On average, I drive only 16 miles a day so this would save me money and gasoline. I would worry about the gasoline engine fouling up from not being used for so long. I'd also have to consider using fuel stablilizer especially since local station now use ethanol in gas. With how I drive and the current price of gasoline, it would take me about 64 years to recover the cost ($40,000) of the vehicle or 32 years to recover the estimated difference between the cost of a Volt and the cost of a Cruze and that's not factoring in the cost of charging and normal wear and tear parts replacement. Will it be available for lease and if so, how much?
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