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So let me get this straight...you want a certain vehicle in a certain color, certain year, certain options...and you want to get that vehicle at $3K LESS than what it's actually worth? Good luck.
Your best option is to either loosen your criteria (wouldn't be my choice- you're stuck with this car for a while, get what you want) or just pay the extra $900 to get the vehicle you want. Yes dealerships can be a pain but you have to realize that a few hundred dollars in the long run isn't going to make a huge difference if you're spending tens of thousands on a new vehicle.
What exactly are you looking for anyway?
3k less than asking.
I don't know about the dealerships around you, but when I bought the Mazda3 in '08 everyone was asking MSRP plus $2-4k for similar cars. I bought mine for $5,000+ less than asking. They were asking $3,600 over MSRP. The car wasn't worth close to that.
#3 was fine. "We can work something out," is not accepting your offer.
#2 I have a problem with. Typical bull****, however. Take your business elsewhere.
Just be logical about the $900. If you're spending 30 hours and make 30 an hour trying to get a deal, then you may not be doing anything but giving yourself a headache for no reason. On the other hand, if you enjoy car shopping (I do) there's no reason not to take all the time in the world. Most dealers are oh so willing to dick around and squeeze you, so I wouldn't worry about wasting their time one iota.
Don't negotiate OTD pricing. Negotiate price before TTL + any LEGALLY required fees (such as recycling fees). Personally, I'll let $75 or so slide for handling the paper work and taking care of the DMV, but strictly speaking that's something that should be included in the price of the car. The benefit of negotiate OTD is that they can't sneak in the $600 charges they love so much. The downside is no one really knows how much you're talking about until they sit down and run the numbers.
All of the scenarios presented are just that ... scenarios.
Who knows what the truth is behind any of those possible car deals? At this point, it's not worth trying to analyze or decipher what transpired.
You need to stick to the essentials of the deal you want.
That's year, make, model, options of the cars that you will accept ... and the price at a given time that you can get onto a contract accepted by the dealership and signed off without any further games at the F&I window or the sales manager's desk.
That's all that counts. The merchandise and the deal. Everything else is just a game and you can choose to play or you can take your business elsewhere if you don't like what you're hearing/seeing.
Personally, I haven't spent more than a half hour dickering on any car I've bought in the last few decades. I do my research on the vehicle, know the prevailing prices in the area for it, and make a realistic offer on the vehicle while leaving a little room left to negotiate. Either the dealer takes my offer or they don't; if they bump me a little bit and it's within my value range, then we can make a deal. If the price is higher than I can justify, then I walk. The next move is up to the dealer; he knows how he can keep me from leaving without the car or he can look for another buyer. Just as I can look for another car ....
A key aspect of all this is to keep the emotions out of the deal. It's a car, transportation ... and what you are buying in a used vehicle is the remaining service life of the car.
I don't understand why some of you consider me a low-baller for wanting to pay less than asking price at a dealership..I find it perfectly normal to negotiate and I will feel stupid paying whatever the asking price is.
The car at dealership #2 was a 2011 Sonata, asking price $16999, which is apprx. 2-3k less than those cars sell for (other Sonatas with same mileage and year were selling for 19k+) I did not want to pay 3k less than asking, the price was already 3k less than price they go for. Because the price was already what I consider cheap for that car I did not try haggling on the price, and came back the 2nd time ready to purchase (I was going to try and knock off a few hundred if I could though, but I'd be happy paying 16999 as well), what made me not want to want to buy is how the sales manager (who I talked to the first time and we agreed I'd come back with down payment) wanted an extra 1k 2 days later. Sure, it is their right to change their mind, and we did not have a written agreement, but they could at least have given me a call to let me know they can't sell for that price to save me the 2nd trip and not assume I'd pay 1k more. If anything, they should apologize for listing it at a "wrong" price and wasting my time and so many other potential customers time. This is called false advertising and they even had the car on their website. Am I wrong?
The other car at dealership #3 was a 2010 Malibu, previous rental. It had some imperfections (some scratches, the type of scratches you get from drive thru car wash, and a couple plastics were loose), me wanting to pay asking price but out the door was very reasonable. Them wanting $900 more to close the deal is reasonable as well, but I just didn't "click" with the car (didn't like color). So the extra $900 would not have been a problem if I really liked the car, It's just weird how the salesman was confident my offer was good, and then the sales manager wants $900. It felt like they just wanted to make $900 more.
ps. What's up with dealers asking what my monthly payments want to be? Is this a trick question for them to add something extra if payments come up to be less than I can afford? I usually tell them I want my monthly payments to be whatever the price of the car is divided by 48 or 60, plus interest. Why do they insist on wanting to know even though I tell them I want to focus on the price first.
I don't understand why some of you consider me a low-baller for wanting to pay less than asking price at a dealership..I find it perfectly normal to negotiate and I will feel stupid paying whatever the asking price is.
The car at dealership #2 was a 2011 Sonata, asking price $16999, which is apprx. 2-3k less than those cars sell for (other Sonatas with same mileage and year were selling for 19k+) I did not want to pay 3k less than asking, the price was already 3k less than price they go for. Because the price was already what I consider cheap for that car I did not try haggling on the price, and came back the 2nd time ready to purchase (I was going to try and knock off a few hundred if I could though, but I'd be happy paying 16999 as well), what made me not want to want to buy is how the sales manager (who I talked to the first time and we agreed I'd come back with down payment) wanted an extra 1k 2 days later. Sure, it is their right to change their mind, and we did not have a written agreement, but they could at least have given me a call to let me know they can't sell for that price to save me the 2nd trip and not assume I'd pay 1k more. If anything, they should apologize for listing it at a "wrong" price and wasting my time and so many other potential customers time. This is called false advertising and they even had the car on their website. Am I wrong?
The other car at dealership #3 was a 2010 Malibu, previous rental. It had some imperfections (some scratches, the type of scratches you get from drive thru car wash, and a couple plastics were loose), me wanting to pay asking price but out the door was very reasonable. Them wanting $900 more to close the deal is reasonable as well, but I just didn't "click" with the car (didn't like color). So the extra $900 would not have been a problem if I really liked the car, It's just weird how the salesman was confident my offer was good, and then the sales manager wants $900. It felt like they just wanted to make $900 more.
ps. What's up with dealers asking what my monthly payments want to be? Is this a trick question for them to add something extra if payments come up to be less than I can afford? I usually tell them I want my monthly payments to be whatever the price of the car is divided by 48 or 60, plus interest. Why do they insist on wanting to know even though I tell them I want to focus on the price first.
You're still trying to over analyze the process ....
The car dealership wants you in the door as a potential buyer, so them not telling you that they want to deal at a higher price point then you'd previously discussed isn't part of their sales tactics. The sales deal is not about courtesy, it's about maximizing the possible sales price on a vehicle.
There's nothing "weird" about a salesman in many dealerships getting you to "yes" on a deal and the sales manager refusing to accept the deal at that price point. It's all part of their culture of making a deal; ie, get you to "yes" and very close to the deal and then pull it away for a relatively modest increase.
The how much can you afford for a car payment is a financial qualifying question. If, like many people, you aren't a cash buyer but need to have dealer financing, then it's a benchmark of how much car you can afford to buy. If you find this line of questioning objectionable, then the best way to deal with it is to avoid answering the question by focusing strictly upon the price of the car under consideration. Tell the salesman at that point of the conversation that that is all you want to deal with at that time and stick to your position. If you can't get past the qualifying questions with a given dealership salesman, then you're seeing the sales process training that they've been given at work. Either accept that is the culture/training of that dealership and give a non answer or find another dealership where you can communicate with the sales staff. Don't expect that you will control the deal or the process at many dealerships, it's not part of their sales culture and you are in their domain.
You've got to keep this in perspective. You're buying one car, having conversations and sales encounters with a focus of just one car purchase. The salespeople have these conversations all day long every day. At many dealerships, they have a sales culture/process which is designed to find out how much money you can possibly spend and then to steer you to those cars at the top of your financial ability. It's not different than the upsell you get at a lot of other retailers ... the restaurant that tells the waitstaff to push the higher priced items or a more expensive bottle of wine, or the clothing store that directs the sales staff to show you the upline merchandise, or the real estate agent that shows you houses that meet your requirements but are at the top of or slightly above your budget ....
Consider that you will need all of these items: food, clothing, housing, and transportation. The job of the sales staff is to maximize their transaction dollar amount with you. Even a fast-food franchise will try to upsell you to the bigger portion or the added value more expensive meal ....
Ditto what Sunspirit said. It's all about maximizing profit and trying to squeeze every dime out of you they can. I worked in real estate when I graduated college, I know the process.
If you truly don't "click" with the car, why not walk away right then and there? I'm constantly amazed that people will SETTLE for something less than they really want. There is NO shortage of used vehicles, take your time to find something you truly like instead of settling for less.
OK, I'll just skip to the part where I advise you what to do based on my process.
Rule #1- Emotions have NO PLACE ON A CAR LOT. They will get you in trouble. If you have to pretend you are buying a loaf of bread then do it. Do not show any EXCITEMENT or FRUSTRATION or they will eat you alive. They are in business to make as much money as they can off sales while still making you feel like you got a deal. You want to get as much as you can when you sell something, right? Don't take it personal but don't let them see your cards or they will use it to their advantage.
a) Don't EVER walk on to a car lot (intending to buy at that lot) not having any clue what you want. This is a bad idea and if you buy you will likely end up with something you dont want, paying too much or both.
I always shop around on the car lots that have a bad reputation until I figure out what make and model I really want. Look at them, test drive them or whatever.
b) After you decide what to buy, research price, inventory, etc. You can go to Edmunds.com and find out what new cars TRUE invoice price is and what you should be paying. The dealers have a potential to make more money off used cars than new, keep that in mind.
c) Dont ever answer the question "What do you want your payments to be". You can avoid this all together by getting pre approved for a loan at you local Credit Union or Bank. Dont mention this until the price has been signed on paper, otherwise you loose some bargaining power because they get a kick-back from the finance companies. Dont ever discuss payments or financing until you have a deal in writing and whatever you do, do not give them your SS number unless you have a signed deal in hand and chose not to get financing elsewhere.
d) When you get to the dealer that you (found in your research) to buy, they should already have the model car you decided you wanted then inspect it and test drive it. Give them an offer several thousand lower than what you have already decided you should pay (based on your research). Your goal now is to buy the car that day. There should be no thinking about it needed now, you have made the decision before you got there today that you are ready to buy. They do not want you to leave without buying that day which is to your bargaining advantage. If you come back the next day, they know you really want the car and you now have less bargining power.
e) Don't ever be afraid to walk out the door if they won't agree to your offer. Make sure it is a fair offer though. I have had to walk out several times to get the deal I wanted. It is not rude. If they are loosing money they will NOT MAKE THE DEAL. If they try to make you feel bad ignore it. Do not fall in love with a CAR. You can always find another. (See Rule #1)
f) I always advise against extended warranties. The return on investment is not good. It may save you but it also may be a waste of $2,000. You have to make the call on that.
g) I never pay a doc fee any more. If they have one, I tell them to take that price off the negoatied price of the vechicle. I paid a doc fee once in recent years but I knew I was getting a great deal on the car at the time. Most of the dealers I use now, don't even charge doc fees. In my opinion the good ones won't charge the fee. It does not cost them $400 to have the admin girl spend 20 minutes sending all the paperwork to the right place.
I have gotten some great, fair deals working this way. I learned this from listening to others (and some friends who worked sales on car lots) and learned alot on my own. Not to say that I am some kind of expert but I have gone to help friends and family too. I always get a pleasure watching the tactics they use to try an get me seperated from the buyer. Once, I have even had the sales manager try to turn my friend against me. Even then, a deal was still struck and a car sold.
Remember these people get training. The Big Auto Groups send people to school to learn how to sell cars to people.
If you don't like the games, you can go to Carmax. They don't have real great prices but they are no pressure and that appeals to many people. I would rather work for a better deal personally. Good Luck!
As far as trades, I always take NADA Clean Trade, KBB Trade In, and Black Book price, average the three to get my number. I may drop $100 from that number but no more. I print out my documentation and take it with me. Do not even mention a trade until you have a deal worked out. The car price and the trade should be negoiated seperately.
Last edited by nc2sc778; 01-01-2012 at 09:20 PM..
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