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While I realize that you did state car, I had two F-250s. Both trucks were 4x4, had 35" BFGoodrich mud T/As, manual, and sat at least 80" tall to the top of the cab. I had to let air out of the tires to get them in the garage, which was an 84" rough opening. Both trucks had large cab lights, and the garage door hung down an inch or two. The 1974 had a 390 cid gasoline motor while the 84 had a 420 cid diesel. The gasoline truck got 10 - 12 mpg while the diesel got 18 - 20.
I do agree, as a general rule, diesels get roughly 40% better fuel economy, but there are always exceptions to this where diesels aren't too much better or they double the fuel economy, but again, I do agree, this is rare.
Again, you are conflating the economics and fuel economy of a TRUCK with a CAR.
They are not the same when it comes to acquisition cost, durability, operating expenses, or function.
My diesel pick up trucks are put to work for a living and deliver comparable fuel economy (if not better) to yours, but they don't substitute for efficient operating costs when it comes to transportation in gasoline CARS vs diesel cars. If Subie released a diesel version of my OBW that got a little better than 60 mpg, then we'd have a basis for the claim of "double the fuel mileage". Same for MB or VW or Peugeot ... their latest diesel technology cars do not get anywhere close to 40% better fuel economy than their gas counterparts, let alone double the fuel economy.
Please, guys, can we stay on topic? Jesse69's original post on this thread was to inquire about DIESEL CARS!
I currently have two generations of Jetta, an 06' 2.5L Gas, and a 12' 2.0T Diesel. The 06' typically gets 27 MPG combined, while the Diesel gets 43 combined. It's not double the fuel economy, but it is an additional 59% over the gas engine. With diesel costing only 7% more than gas, it's a clear savings...now comparing the fuel savings with my motorcycle, and suddenly cost savings lean towards the bike, but it's running on regular pump gas and netting the same fuel economy as the diesel...it's even a tad more fun to commute on too....unless it's under 40 degrees outside.
For a few weeks here in St. Louis, diesel prices were also cheaper than regular unleaded...but that didn't last to long, and for the last month or so, diesel has been about $3.75, while gas hovers around $3.45.
I currently have two generations of Jetta, an 06' 2.5L Gas, and a 12' 2.0T Diesel. The 06' typically gets 27 MPG combined, while the Diesel gets 43 combined. It's not double the fuel economy, but it is an additional 59% over the gas engine. With diesel costing only 7% more than gas, it's a clear savings...now comparing the fuel savings with my motorcycle, and suddenly cost savings lean towards the bike, but it's running on regular pump gas and netting the same fuel economy as the diesel...it's even a tad more fun to commute on too....unless it's under 40 degrees outside.
For a few weeks here in St. Louis, diesel prices were also cheaper than regular unleaded...but that didn't last to long, and for the last month or so, diesel has been about $3.75, while gas hovers around $3.45.
What's completely left out of this analysis is the acquisition cost of the two cars and the projected service life of the Jettas' in your ownership.
What would a '12 gasser Jetta cost compared to a comparably equipped TDI Diesel?
I'm guessing about a $4,000 difference at the front side of the deal. That's a lot of miles to be driven at 4 cents/mile advantage in fuel economy before the diesel car cost less. And that's at the current quoted fuel price differential, which could get even wider than it is now to the detriment of the diesel fuel.
In my experience, the 2.5 VW engines are virtually as long-lived in regular use as the TDI engines. If you figure a 200,000 mile service life in your ownership, I'd bet that the diesel isn't going to pencil out with any significant advantage. The TDI series has certainly had it's foibles in reaching high mileage without serious dollars being spent on it for a lot of people and VW has done an excellent job of keeping a lot of the diagnostics and repair procedures in-house, meaning dealer repairs rather than less expensive aftermarket repairs.
What's completely left out of this analysis is the acquisition cost of the two cars and the projected service life of the Jettas' in your ownership.
What would a '12 gasser Jetta cost compared to a comparably equipped TDI Diesel?
I'm guessing about a $4,000 difference at the front side of the deal. That's a lot of miles to be driven at 4 cents/mile advantage in fuel economy before the diesel car cost less. And that's at the current quoted fuel price differential, which could get even wider than it is now to the detriment of the diesel fuel.
In my experience, the 2.5 VW engines are virtually as long-lived in regular use as the TDI engines. If you figure a 200,000 mile service life in your ownership, I'd bet that the diesel isn't going to pencil out with any significant advantage. The TDI series has certainly had it's foibles in reaching high mileage without serious dollars being spent on it for a lot of people and VW has done an excellent job of keeping a lot of the diagnostics and repair procedures in-house, meaning dealer repairs rather than less expensive aftermarket repairs.
I bought my wife a (used) 2001 VW New Beetle for our 20th Anniversary. I really wanted to get a TDI, but for the same model, with the same options & mileage, I would have had to pay over $3,000 more for the TDI than our gasser.
I would have had to drive over 60,000 miles just to recoup the extra cost of buying a TDI. And that was in light of the fact that, at that time diesel was still cheaper than gas. I was also figuring costs and mileage based on #2 summer fuel. And those of us experienced with diesels know that winter driving is not as economical as summer driving.
If I drove tens of thousands of miles per year, I'd still consider buying a diesel car. But my job doesn't now require that, so it's not now economically feasible.
My Passat TDI has saved me an unbelievable amount of money. WHen I bought it diesel was about 20-30 cents more a gallon than 87 octane but I get almost 750 miles on one tank of diesel wheras I would have had to fill up twice with my last car to get that kind of mileage out of a tank. Diesel I have notices has come way down in price and I actually did fill up a couple weeks ago somewhere for $3.54 a gallon while the 87 octane was $3.63. Im not sure I would ever by anything other than a diesel after owning this one.
Is standard unleaded fuel in the US 87 octane then? I have to admit I never knew that. What are the other ratings for the different types of unleaded then?
Over here (UK) our Standard unleaded is 95 RON (Road Octane Number) and our Super is 98 RON.
Is standard unleaded fuel in the US 87 octane then? I have to admit I never knew that. What are the other ratings for the different types of unleaded then?
Over here (UK) our Standard unleaded is 95 RON (Road Octane Number) and our Super is 98 RON.
We post a different octane number on the pump than most of the rest of the world, of course. RON is actually Research Octane Number. We use the average of that and the Motor Octane Number. Explained here: Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Practical upshot: the 87 we use is not comparable to the 95 directly. The 87 would be around 91-92 in your scale I believe.
We post a different octane number on the pump than most of the rest of the world, of course. RON is actually Research Octane Number. We use the average of that and the Motor Octane Number. Explained here: Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Practical upshot: the 87 we use is not comparable to the 95 directly. The 87 would be around 91-92 in your scale I believe.
We use an average from the Research Octane Number and the Motor Octane number which is displayed on our fuel pumps as RON (Road Octane Number): Fuel Types - PetrolPrices.com
United States In most states, ethanol is added by law to a minimum level which is currently 5.9%. Most fuel pumps display a sticker stating the fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol, an intentional disparity which allows the minimum level to be raised over time without requiring modification of the literature/labelling. Until late 2010, fuels retailers were only authorized to sell fuel containing up to 10 percent ethanol (E10), and most vehicle warranties (except for flexible fuel vehicles) authorize fuels that contain no more than 10 percent ethanol.[11] In parts of the United States, ethanol is sometimes added to gasoline without an indication that it is a component.
Compared to..
Quote:
European Union In the EU, 5% ethanol can be added within the common gasoline spec (EN 228). Discussions are ongoing to allow 10% blending of ethanol (available in Finnish and French gas stations). Most gasoline sold in Sweden has 5-15% ethanol added.
With Ethanol being added to UK Unleaded at the rate of 5% at British refineries.
Diesel used to be cheaper than 87 octane up until something like 10 years ago. 87 octane was about a buck a gallon and diesel was about 10-15 cents less. The first gasoline price spike in the early 2000s appeared to be when diesel had overtaken gasoline in price/gallon for the first time. Diesel has been more expensive than regular unleaded- sometimes significantly so- pretty much ever since then in the places I have lived.
Most of what I have heard pins the higher cost of diesel on increased demand for diesel for construction equipment in China and India, road fuel taxes heavily favoring diesel in Europe, as well as moving from high-sulfur to ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel for road vehicles in the U.S. Most of the rest of the world uses much more diesel than gasoline and foreign refiners mainly aim to produce diesel. The gasoline that is made as a by product of refining crude oil into diesel gets sold to the U.S. and it doesn't cost a whole lot since we are the only country that buys a lot of it.
The comments about diesel being a by-product of gasoline refining is only partially true. Crude is a mix of a wide variety of hydrocarbon chain lengths. You can adjust your distillation process somewhat to slightly affect the proportion of certain fuels coming off the column, but you always will get some of a wide variety of fuels. People mainly trying to get gasoline from crude like in the U.S. will regard diesel as the by-product, Europe and Asia who are mainly trying to get diesel regard gasoline as a by-product. The taxes on diesel and gasoline in the U.S. are almost identical. Diesel is taxed at 41.4 cents/gallon and gasoline is taxed at 37.8 cents/gallon. That is significantly different from Europe where gasoline may have an extra dollar in tax per gallon compared to diesel.
Diesel is taxed at 41.4 cents/gallon and gasoline is taxed at 37.8 cents/gallon. That is significantly different from Europe where gasoline may have an extra dollar in tax per gallon compared to diesel.
The duties on Diesel and Petrol in the UK are identical at 57.95 per litre and no, i didn't type that wrong that is per litre.
So that's £2.19 ($3.44 per US Gallon) in dutie.......
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RON is actually Research Octane Number. We use the average of that and the Motor Octane Number. Explained here: 
