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The big trucks make up the difference by paying more by using so much more fuel through less mpg AND many more miles traveled. Most big trucks 5-10mpg and around 500-700 miles a day otr and a tew hundred miles every day for the locals. And that 50mpg hybrid will indeed cause less road wear and tear because it will weigh less than whatever it was that got 28mpg.
I intentionally didn't cite miles driven because each mile driven also results in additional wear/damage
The idea that a hybrid is automatically lighter than a non-hybrid car is ridiculous. When looking at vehicles of the same size what do you think would be heavier, the non-hybrid with just an engine, or the hybrid with an engine, electric motor, battery and its supporting gear. Look at the Tesla Model S sedan as an example. It weighs close to 5000lbs. The Prius weighs just about the same as my car yet my car gets about 30mpg hwy and 20mpg in the city. I don't mind paying more for the fuel that I consume, I do mind paying more for road tax when the damage done is equivalent to that of a more efficient vehicle.
All I'm trying to convey is the idea that going after hybrid or EV owners for not paying their so-called fair share of gas tax is silly on two counts:
It's like going after skinny people for not paying enough restaurant meals tax.
It's such a minute externality (compared to many other things) in relation to the cost of building an maintaining transpo infrastructure.
What about going after home owners for not paying property tax? Is that silly? This is the same thing. Hybirds use the roads just like every other vehilce out there, but are not paying their "fair share" to keep them maintained.
All I'm trying to convey is the idea that going after hybrid or EV owners for not paying their so-called fair share of gas tax is silly on two counts:
It's like going after skinny people for not paying enough restaurant meals tax.
It's such a minute externality (compared to many other things) in relation to the cost of building an maintaining transpo infrastructure.
It's not at all like that. A skinny person pays less in taxes at restaurants because they eat less food. Just because I traded in my gas guzzler for a hybrid does not mean that I drive less and exert less wear on the roads.
I intentionally didn't cite miles driven because each mile driven also results in additional wear/damage
The idea that a hybrid is automatically lighter than a non-hybrid car is ridiculous. When looking at vehicles of the same size what do you think would be heavier, the non-hybrid with just an engine, or the hybrid with an engine, electric motor, battery and its supporting gear. Look at the Tesla Model S sedan as an example. It weighs close to 5000lbs. The Prius weighs just about the same as my car yet my car gets about 30mpg hwy and 20mpg in the city. I don't mind paying more for the fuel that I consume, I do mind paying more for road tax when the damage done is equivalent to that of a more efficient vehicle.
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You said 50mpg specifically. The ONLY hybrid rated at 50mpg is the Prius and Prius C. A prius C weighs less than 2600lbs and a regular Prius weighs just under 3000lbs. Id say itd have to be a pretty sad car to weigh less than that and still only get 28mpg during regular daily driving. I was only going by the numbers you provided. Now that you said 30highway and 20 city it surely must weigh more than a Prius because that is closer to 26/27mpg combined, not the previously mentioned 28mpg.
It's not at all like that. A skinny person pays less in taxes at restaurants because they eat less food. Just because I traded in my gas guzzler for a hybrid does not mean that I drive less and exert less wear on the roads.
States and the feds should have thought about that before mandating ever higher fuel economy standards and requirements to sell hybrids/EVS (lookin' at you California).
"we need higher fuel economy standards so that we use less oil!"
"Oh crap, now we make less on gas taxes!"
Simply put gas taxes should have been a PERCENTAGE on gasoline prices, not a fixed amount.
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You said 50mpg specifically. The ONLY hybrid rated at 50mpg is the Prius and Prius C. A prius C weighs less than 2600lbs and a regular Prius weighs just under 3000lbs. Id say itd have to be a pretty sad car to weigh less than that and still only get 28mpg during regular daily driving. I was only going by the numbers you provided. Now that you said 30highway and 20 city it surely must weigh more than a Prius because that is closer to 26/27mpg combined, not the previously mentioned 28mpg.
It should be fairly obvious that we are using general and approximate figures as each individual vehicles performance will vary. I'm sure a guy driving a hopped up 8mpg sedan could also validly argue that it exerts no more wear on the road than a 28mpg sedan yet he pays more towards road repairs.
The figure I pulled today for the 2013 Prius V show a 3300lbs gross weight. My 2011 Hyundai Genesis Coupe RSPEC weighs just about as much. The reason I am accepting the mileage penalty is that I've got near 400hp and completely different driving dynamics as compared to the Prius. I don't mind paying for the extra fuel that I consume but using more fuel per mile doesn't somehow magically cause the roads to deteriorate at a faster rate.
States and the feds should have thought about that before mandating ever higher fuel economy standards and requirements to sell hybrids/EVS (lookin' at you California).
"we need higher fuel economy standards so that we use less oil!"
"Oh crap, now we make less on gas taxes!"
Simply put gas taxes should have been a PERCENTAGE on gasoline prices, not a fixed amount.
We can say should and could all day but the problem is that fixing it is not so simple. The ideal method as previously stated is to calculate a cost based on mileage driven and vehicle weight.
What about going after home owners for not paying property tax? Is that silly? This is the same thing. Hybirds use the roads just like every other vehilce out there, but are not paying their "fair share" to keep them maintained.
Its not like they arent buying gas/paying tax at all!!. What about the rest of the fuel miser, gas only cars that get high 30s/low 40s for fuel mileage?? How do you get them to pay "their fair share" when most hybrids get the same mileage as those, smaller gas only cars?? The only hybrids that get anywhere near 50 mpg is the Prius. The Camry/Avalon is probally 2nd for fuel milage at 40-43 mpg. The Fords are listed at 45mpg but for everyone real world is closer to high 30s, low 40s. How does a gas only getting the same mpg NOT get penalized the same??
No one has addressed this the 3 times Ive asked now, prob cause its quite the conundrum.
I see where the government is losing tax dollars because the people using electric cars and hybrids are not buying gas . The solution is to make them pay an extra fee to make up for the lost revenue,,,I guess getting a hybrid to save money isnt such a good idea after all .It is crazy you would think they would want to encourage people to seek alternate fuels but if it is going to cost them extra whats the point...Thanks Obama
the real question isnt about the hybrids, and any road tax that a government might impose on these and electric cars, the real question is when will said government decide that they are still not making enough money, and decide to impose said road tax on ALL cars and trucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW
What governments are charging higher road use taxes for Hybrids? Hybrids cost more then regular cars so don't the governments get more on sales taxes anyway?
no government yet that i know of has imposed a road use tax on hybrids and electric cars, but a number of them have tossed the idea around as a way to get more tax revenue that has been lost due to more efficient cars not using gasoline as much.
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