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In some municipalities, you can sell the power back onto the grid.
Again though, we always have to look at "total cost." How much money does your neighbor have wrapped up in his solar power system? He might have almost nothing - because he's an engineer - but I'd end up spending a LOT of money in order to save money. I thought seriously about putting up a wind generator, until I found that the cheapest one cost over $17,000 - and that didn't include the tower, permits, or any electrical work. When I did all my calculations, I realized that it would have taken me over 35 years to recoup the cost of putting up the tower. Perhaps 25 years, if I was able to sell enough back to the power company.
He can only use power produced to offset power used... he has a very large credit balance...
His home is 3400 square feet and only he and his wife live there and they built it about 20 years ago with the best roof, extra insulation, etc...
His complete system, permits and materials and a helper was 35k... part of the cost was for the heavy copper wire used from the hillside to the home... didn't want anything on the roof and the hillside had ideal sun.
When I asked him how the numbers worked in his favor he simply said it is something he wanted to do...
He's like a kid... every morning, the moment he gets out of bed he checks to see how many kW he produced the day before and it puts a smile on his face.
Also worked out a deal with another neighbor that has a drilled well... my friend was allowed to tap into it in exchange for supplying power to the well pump and secondary pump...
He can only use power produced to offset power used... he has a very large credit balance...
His home is 3400 square feet and only he and his wife live there and they built it about 20 years ago with the best roof, extra insulation, etc...
His complete system, permits and materials and a helper was 35k... part of the cost was for the heavy copper wire used from the hillside to the home... didn't want anything on the roof and the hillside had ideal sun.
When I asked him how the numbers worked in his favor he simply said it is something he wanted to do...
He's like a kid... every morning, the moment he gets out of bed he checks to see how many kW he produced the day before and it puts a smile on his face.
Also worked out a deal with another neighbor that has a drilled well... my friend was allowed to tap into it in exchange for supplying power to the well pump and secondary pump...
Sounds very cool! Self-sufficiency. Doing your own thing.
It's just sad that so much of self-sufficiency is so darned expensive. People used to be self-sufficient because it was the only way to live.
The coal generated plants are converting to natural gas in my region. We are also researching setting up our own solar grid. Most likely, our purchase would be long-term, as all our past vehicles have been ... we buy them and keep them for 'life.' This is actually the first time we're considering a new vehicle instead of used.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
That is true, Electric vehicles have a pretty nasty environmental impact from what I understand. I am not sure I woudl take that into consideration though. I do not think about environmental impact when I buy things in most cases. If I did I woudl probably go crazy trying to figure it out. Frequently things you would think are environmentally beneficial are detrimental (like rinsing off cans to recycle them wastes more water and nets a worse environmental impact than throwing the can away). In any event, my personal impact on the environment is almost none.
Yes, that's the irony of people claiming to be saving the environment by driving electric and hybrid vehicles.
I don't play golf and I dont need a street legal golf car which is all the 'smart" car is
We're not talking about Smart cars, but real cars like the Leaf and my Volt.
And I aslo see the expected anti EV propaganda machine is out in full force with with the same old arguments that have been disproven time and time again.
EVs are no less environmentally friendly to produce, their battery packs are very recyclable (and in the Volt's case, the old battery packs get turned into batttey backups for home and office use), and central sources of controlled pollution like a coal plant are orders of magnitude cleaner than millions of individual point sources (ICE cars). Again, proven repeatedly. And EV power sources get cleaner every year due to regulations and things like switching coal to natural gas, or being able to source from hydro and wind. Individual point sources (your ICE car) gets DIRTIER every year you drive it.
The issue that is overlooked in these articles (with BBC being the exception) is that battery technology and the manufacturing process is constantly improving.
Are we blind to the fact that we have fought wars, lives have been lost, and every year we spend billions of dollars to protect our oil interests overseas? Once we factor this in it's clear that the REAL cost of a gallon of gas is far greater than the national average of $3.60 that we currently pay at the pump. An investment in electric vehicles and renewable energy is an investment in our national security. In a few years when gas is $5-6/gallon we'll be glad we made these investments.
No, no car has been improved on since 1993, 2 decades ago...
Modern EV batteries are Lithium Ion, a technology that didn't exist for cars as recently as 2006. Battery packs are warranted for 10 years/100k miles. Costs to replace are in line wi8th replcing your engine, but modern battery packs in real life use have been lasting 300-400k miles. And then they are recycled.
I'll never have to worry about replacing a battery pack outside of warranty in my Volt.
And in 1993, gas didn't cost what it does now. I can drive all month on pure electricity for a cost of about $8. Cannot do that at all with a gas or diesel car. I haven't put gas in my Volt in the last two months. And I drive it every day to go to work and run errands.
Pure EVs like the Leaf can be leased for $199 a month and have no gasoline costs and low insurance rates. it's pretty easy to save money over pretty much any new car out there.
Yes, if you drive a paid off old beater you will not save money buying ANY new car, EV or not. But youre stil driving an old beater and I am not in a competition to prove to the world how much in poverty I am, as some here seem to be.
Who, in their right mind, changes engines every 10 years? I've gotten at least 3 times that use out of every vehicle I have owned. Course, I don't buy vehicles every few years to impress the neighbors, I buy vehicles because my old one is shot, with over 500,000 miles on it.
Everybody's pattern on owning a car, is different. So you can not compare costs of ownership from one person to the next. Party A may trade in cars every 2 years and they never encounter problems.. Party B doesn't buy cars to impress people, they may encounter problems. So, the only fair way to judge a vehicle on cost, is for the Life of the Vehicle, not the life of person's wants and desires.
During the life of an electric car, I would bet that the cost will be more. Right now, our legislatures are coming up with a method of taxing road use of an electric vehicle. Prior to this, they got away scott free, laughing because they didn't have to help pay for highways, all they had to do is complain about the bumps and holes. That is changing. One of the things recommended is that normal use with a gas rig runs about 2 cents a mile for taxes to pay for roads. So they are looking at making you have your odometer verified every year and that turned in to the courthouse when you go to purchase license plates AND pay your road tax for the number of miles you did this year. Add that to your costs.
When that car needs to have new batteries, what is the cost? Better yet, what is going to be the cost of disposing of the old batteries, or even the cost of getting a recycle place to accept them?
So figure the cost of the life of the car, and add in the things that you are currently cheating the rest of us out of (highway taxes), and the cost of battery replacement and disposal. Then tell me how much cheaper it is to own an electric vehicle, vrs my IMark that gets 54 mpg.
If you want to buy an electric car, then I'm happy for you! If you spend money installing an photovoltaic array on your house then good for you. I want you to brag about how much money you are saving and how you are saving the planet. Good for you!
I'm very happy that you have decided to spend your money to allow you to feel good about yourself, and your ego improved. Realize that some people see you differently then you see yourself. I have ran the numbers for ownership of an electric car and a voltaic array for a house and the expense was prohibitively too expensive.
I think it is important that a certain percentage of the population by willing to spend their money in the hopes that the electric technology will improve someday. I have not seen any real improvements in 20 years, but people can keep hoping.
If you want to buy an electric car, then I'm happy for you! If you spend money installing an photovoltaic array on your house then good for you. I want you to brag about how much money you are saving and how you are saving the planet. Good for you!
I'm very happy that you have decided to spend your money to allow you to feel good about yourself, and your ego improved. Realize that some people see you differently then you see yourself. I have ran the numbers for ownership of an electric car and a voltaic array for a house and the expense was prohibitively too expensive.
I think it is important that a certain percentage of the population by willing to spend their money in the hopes that the electric technology will improve someday. I have not seen any real improvements in 20 years, but people can keep hoping.
I'd be ok with the bolded statement above under the condition that my tax dollars aren't used to subsidize your gas. Neither situation is very likely so we both just have to deal with it.
The real reason why we haven't seen any significant improvement is because the big auto manufacturers lack innovation and vision. They built small ugly EV's with little to no driving range and no infrastructure to support them. They are attempting to support the idea that no one wants EV's based on the low demand. All of that is about to change, significant improvements will be made over the next 5 years. Tesla is showing them how it's done. They are in the process of designing a stylish affordable EV with 200+ miles of range that people will want to drive. They are also building the infrastructure to facilitate long range trips. They'll reinvent the auto industry much like Apple reinvented the music and mobile phone industry.
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