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I never thought I was a "brand loyalist", but find past decade or so that is exactly what I am doing. In both automobiles and motorcycles, though let's stick to the former for this thread.
My reason is as much about Sales and Service as the brand itself (Product). I need all three to mesh together well before buying the product, that whole enchilada (experience). All the way, Day 1 through the day I trade in for another, possibly (probably?) the same brand.
For comment: your thoughts on combined automotive Sales, Service, and Brand experience, if that matters to you. The what, and why, in your case. (If focusing on "Brand X vs. Brand Y", thinking this might devolve into a shouting match: would suggest being general vs. specific )
When younger I was rather mercenary on the Sales and Service part, focusing only on Product. The longer I hold vehicles, however, and the more my time is worth, the more it matters since I'll definitely need them down the road (literally, figuratively) for both service and to re-cycle vehicles into something newer.
Thanks!
(Blog entry posted, "ON: the Combined Sales, Service, and Product Experience in Modern Car Buying", if-interested in more details.)
Honestly I could care less about the sales experience as it relates to cars. I've been conditioned by the major brands to hate the sales experience, so I look past that and just go to work to get the price I want, knowing I'll never see or deal with this person again. If I actually enjoy the experience, then they stood out in some way, such as the experience I just had buying an Audi, but otherwise I don't hold bad sales against the manufacturer.
If service is poor, I'll go to a different dealer.
The product is the only thing that really makes a lasting impression in my mind and that can turn me off of a given make indefinitely; such as Mercedes Benz in my case after a disastrous ownership experience with a G55.
The product is the only thing that really makes a lasting impression in my mind and that can turn me off of a given make indefinitely; such as Mercedes Benz in my case after a disastrous ownership experience with a G55.
OK, that's what I mean. Thanks for the comments.
Big EUR dealer group nearby sells two of the brands you mention. Four total dealers. I own one of the remaining two brands, at-current.
My experience dealing directly with all three legs (Sales, Service, Product) on two of the four, another of which you also mentioned, was Great, Great, and Average to Good, in order, across several vehicles.
There is a certain luck there. You had a bad 55; former peer of mine is becoming frustrated in his AMG 55-something (I don't know them well) experience, too. The "Product" portion of the deal is thus blown, for him and you. And for others, too, by reputation.
Thus: no sale!
I'm sticking with one of those EUR brands, partially emotionally and partially rationally (I realize), because of that Great/Great/Average-to-good thing. In my case, the "emotional" part is walking in there, being called by name, recommending buddies and work peers to deal with so-and-so in Sales, arguing good-naturedly with Service, and mulling merits of Product across the years.
I guess, then, for me it really is as much emotion as practicality anymore. And I'm OK with that.
I wasn't originally going to answer this, but I thought about it for a bit and I realized that I might, at least to offer counterpoint.
I've owned over 100 cars in the last 35 years, from most major manufacturers worldwide (except Chinese cars. Never had one). But recently I've been buying more and more of them new, so now dealer experience is starting to take effect. But, I'm open minded. I've had good and bad product form the same manufacturer before, so one bad example from a brand will not turn me off from that brand, as I understand that it's on an examplel by example basis. I've even had good luck (if you can call it luck) from traditionally trobleprone brands, so I definitely never rule out brand when it comes to buying.
Dealers are another story. Bad dealers, however, will ALSO not put me off of a brand, just off that particular dealer. For example, my local MINI dealer, MINI of Baltimore is outstanding, both for sales and service and after sale care and follow up (with a lot of cool MINI related activities happening year round, like a MINI gathering and tour to the local Humane society for charity work). Another relatively local MINI dealer, however, has a reputation for bad service and a haughty attitude towards it's customers, and I refuse to go there. Even as a MINI owner, I've been treated rudely there. Still love MINIs though, even though that dealer is below par.
Another example is my Chevy dealer. I love my car, thouigh the dealer expereince has been a bit "meh." And the service (for a check engine light and recall notice) was not very good (they scheduled me for 11:30 AM so i could arrive and wait on my lunch break, but they didn't actually start work on the car until 1:00 pm and finished at 3 pm. I ended up having to take the afternoon off and use PTO time). But it hasn't changed my opinion on the car or brand.
So I guess, no, the "whole enchilada" means nothing to me as far as brand loyalty and brand perception. And a bad experience will only sour me on that particular experience.
So I guess, no, the "whole enchilada" means nothing to me as far as brand loyalty and brand perception. And a bad experience will only sour me on that particular experience.
I don't get why people put up with horrible dealers....or how they survive. Its business 101
The Honda 5 miles from me is beyond pitiful. The one 20 miles away is adequate. I complained to Honda N/A once...they just took down my complaints and deals tried to rectify AFTER my complaints.
I don't get why people put up with horrible dealers....or how they survive. Its business 101
The Honda 5 miles from me is pitiful. The one 20 miles away is adequate. I complained to Honda N/A once...they just took down my complaints and deals tried to rectify AFTER my complaints.
The national automobile dealers association says we consumers like it this way, and that's why we need more legislation to prevent the Teslas of the world from selling to us directly.
I wasn't originally going to answer this, but I thought about it for a bit and I realized that I might, at least to offer counterpoint.
I've owned over 100 cars in the last 35 years, from most major manufacturers worldwide (except Chinese cars. Never had one). But recently I've been buying more and more of them new, so now dealer experience is starting to take effect. But, I'm open minded. I've had good and bad product form the same manufacturer before, so one bad example from a brand will not turn me off from that brand, as I understand that it's on an examplel by example basis. I've even had good luck (if you can call it luck) from traditionally trobleprone brands, so I definitely never rule out brand when it comes to buying.
So I guess, no, the "whole enchilada" means nothing to me as far as brand loyalty and brand perception. And a bad experience will only sour me on that particular experience.
Was surprised to tally that I've only owned eight cars since age 16. Three decades of driving. Two of those cars only reluctantly moved under their own power, though one clunkers got me moved x-country successfully so will always be remembered fondly.
(Aside: the other was an impromptu snowplow (ramming it into snow banks was fun). Paid $150 for it, and probably got ripped off. Lasted the winter, though...last seen in a brake shop: I left it on the lift, fled the building, and left town for good not long thereafter. College: hmm.)
Last six have been vehicles I'm actually pleased to be seen driving. My average ownership time is clearly getting up there: 5-7 years, I'm thinking.
To your point, was discussing this thread with a buddy this AM. He remarked that JPN Brand X dealer near my home (Seattle metro) are horrid on Sales. A brand I own, and like. I agree, they are vultures. But that vulture dealer's Service, and Product, are "Great, and Great" in my experience so far.
...still, though: I don't shop there anymore. I *do* shop at the JPN Brand X dealers to the north and south, a bit out of my way, because they hit all three of the marks I've specified.
Yes, you're right, I could buy a JPN Brand X product tomorrow and it could be a lemon. It happens. I'd not necessarily re-think my paradigm, though, because I choose to believe that the dealers good on Sales and Service would "make it right" if Product failed that one time. And yes, people are not robots: nothing is static, in Sales-Service-Product. I'm merely going on averages, over time, based on somewhat-subjective evaluation criteria.
For me it is peace of mind, or perhaps lack of patience with *consistently* despicable Sales behavior (or Service, or Product). Another point: there is a EUR brand (UK, actually) with gorgeous looking Product, IMO. They can really design 'em. Supposedly, Sales and Service are pretty good there too (per several of my peers). But the Product is so abysmally poor quality...on the average...I can't really get behind it. I really thought on that, for this particular brand, not too many years ago. The Sales, Service part (alone) came close to winning the day. But if I'm on a first name basis with the mechanic...? Nuh uh. They can never make it fully right, despite good intentions.
I used to wrench on all my cars myself for everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. Clutch swaps, engine swaps, you name it. Now though, my time is worth more than the money I'd save if I did some things myself, not to mention the toll it takes on your body working on your back under a car in the garage. So service didn't matter at all to me in the past, but now...
I think it really boils down to what a person can afford... If you're buying a Chevy, you shouldn't expect "the whole enchilada" so to speak. You can expect a good product perhaps, and a good sales experience too, but until you've experienced the service level you get at a premium brand, then it isn't really the whole enchilada.
You've got to spend a lot of money IMO to have a car where the sales, service, and product are all top notch. I never had that until I bought my SL600 (and then, people may say I still didn't have it because of the "product" aspect and all the times it needed service!)
But to their credit, Mercedes and other high end brands go out of their way to please you on the service front, and as far as sales go, I've never had a bad experience with a salesperson either. High end cars sell themselves. You know why you're there, and so does the salesperson. It's much more relaxed than you'll find buying a "regular" car.
For me, I don't like boring cars, and most of the most interesting and fun cars are not the most reliable. So I learned early on that reliability was on low priority and learned to work on my own cars so that tinkering was part of the ownership experience (classic MG, Jaguar and BMWs mostly, though there were a number of Fiats thrown in for good measure). Of course, I usually bought them well used and in need of work from day one, as I was buying by price, not condition.
In fact, dealer service departments are part of why I'm thinking of going back to buying used, so I don't have to rely on them (though the fact that the repairs are done under warranty on a new or nearly new car mitigates that a bit). The problem with that is that used cars are getting more modern everyday, as well, so they need specialized equipment to repair. And the cars I can work on with the tools I have are getting older all the time, too (it's sad that the 2001 BMW I really like is now 13 years old and even decent examples will be well worn and getting older every day).
Frankly it makes little difference to me. We tend to buy vehicles in groups, so our sales experience consists of sending out a list of the exact vehicles/options we need and the price we will pay and then waiting for return calls. We allow a reasonable profit and buy multiple vehicles at a time, so there is always a dealership somewhere that will take our offer, usually several. Sometimes they will throw in some extras like a handful of spare keys.
We do not use dealer service. We maintain our own vehicles. We add some upgrades and would never allow dealer technicians to touch one of our vehicles. If we had a major failure covered by a warranty, we might have a dealer repair, but that has not come up. I suspect we would arrange to do the repair in-house and just get the dealer or manufacturer to supply the parts. We may get parts through some sort of warranty process for all I know. I have never asked.
As far as product goes, they are all pretty much the same at the higher end. Some offer better performance, handling, comfort, space or utility than others but they are all very reliable at least as long as we tend to keep them. Gasoline mileage is not really an issue. We do not see a huge difference between brands with similar models. Some vehicles are much better values however. We often need more comfortable vehicles, so while a CTS-V may be the best value for a performance sedan, it is not sufficiently comfortable to sit in for hours or days and we have to go with pricier models or compromise on performance somewhat.
Our personal vehicles are generally purchased as part of a group of vehicles purchased for the business. There is no negotiating. We simply do not converse with the dealerships much at all.
Thus, I would say none of the listed elements concern us much at all. I would say the issues of concern are capability, capacity, value/cost and comfort.
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