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We own current cars.
We own vintage cars.
We own vintage race cars.
We own motorcycles...
Our newest is a 2015 BMW.
Our oldest is a 1952 MG.
Our fastest is a 2010 Mercedes E550 Coupe.
Our slowest is a 1966 Triumph Spitfire.
I write an automotive column for a couple newspapers & a very popular blog on cars & car related life.
Whenever I read threads such as this one, I realize how little most folks really know about cars. If you really cannot tell the difference in driving dynamic between say, a Hyundai, Lexus & a Mercedes Benz, then you might as well simply buy the cheapest one (assuming that cheap is the most important factor for most folks on this thread).
There really are very few bad cars currently made. We're on our fourth Mercedes Benz, and very happy with it both in terms of reliability, quality, and primarily the actual driving experience. If you honestly can't tell the difference, don't pay the premium.
We recently replaced my wife's Cadillac SRX. It was a superb car, but sadly,at around 65,000 miles started experiencing difficult to trace electrical problems. She does the typical errand running, etc. She is also a licensed competition race driver, and has little interest in cars with mediocre performance. We drove all the vehicles that seemed like they might work for her: Subaru Outback, VW Jetta wagon, Volvo wagon, Mercedes ML, Audi Allroad, and more. By far, her favorite was the BMW 328i wagon & X3.
I really wanted her to like the Subaru or VW, because they're the cheapos. Alas, after she drove those, she immediately dismissed them as having significantly inferior interior, performance & handling.
So, she chose the BMW 328ix wagon. All-wheel drive, decent turbo engine, typically superior BMW driving dynamics. Great seats, nice leather, and wood trim.
Did we care a bit about future service costs? No. It came with free service for three years, no cost for anything except tires basically. Now here's a little secret about older (as in out of warranty) cars, especially high performance ones: How the car was treated, maintained, serviced, repaired, and driven by the original owner is an exceedingly important factor. sure, there can be the rare "Lemon", but those are very few, in reality. German cars (real ones, not made in Mexico ones) are typically very well built. As they age, they generally will require more costly repairs than Japanese, and increasingly, Korean cars. Swedish, meaning just Volvo these days currently lack the refinement and quality of Germans. They also utilize some very difficult to diagnose electrical systems; think CAN-bus...
If driving dynamics are not a primary factor in your car, then you're better off buying virtually any of the Japanese brands, or a Hyundai. Hyundai's sister company: KIA seems to be having a bit more difficulty in producing the high quality that Hyundai is building.
Currently, I think Mazda has the best driving Asian cars made.
If quiet & comfy are the most important factors; Lexus is a good choice. Especially if great handling isn't important to you...
You sound like someone who writes for Jalopnik (this is a compliment).
The statement on prior owner treatment...cannot be overstated. A well-looked after British/German/Italian car is is a bargain; a mistreated one is a nightmare. An acquaintance has an older BMW. Being a typical New Zealander, servicing was done on the cheap by a non-specialist. Some years of that and a repair bill came in for $5k - which is devastating for them since disposable income is only about $100-200/week. I bought my 2005 Audi A6 for (equivalent) US$10k* - its prior owner consistently serviced the car at the scheduled intervals at the same dealership. I just took it in for its major 55k mile service (the 55/110/165 etc is the most intensive service). A new wheel bearing and sensor were required also required. For the service and repairs? Total cost: US$575. Not bad. I was warned that in another year or two, I would be due for some new cam seals - cost incl labour: US$250.
*A Lexus of a similar year/condition would have been 40% more - I am going to be in Current Location for a limited time (3-4 years), and I didn't fancy paying what the locals refer to as the "Toyota Tax" (the very significant premium commanded by used Japanese cars) for cars that were not nearly as fun.
Repair bills seem modest here in Auckland, NZ compared with what the family cars needed back in New York (eg $1500 repairs + servicing annually for my sister's Cadillac catera, given to us by grandparents). Running 91/93 (95/98, here) octane is a premium of US$1.50'ish per quarter tank over the hypothetical cost of regular. Reliability is fine - my only problem was when the 10 year old battery gave up its ghost (likely not helped by only being driven once a week at that stage). I called the Automobile Association and had a new battery installed within a half hour (total cost US$230). For road trips, the car is the ultimate town & country touring sedan - smooth for the passengers, love the Bose system for music, and it's fun to drive cruising on the plains of winding up and down the mountains before you see the shimmering sea.
A friend of mine has a VW Touregue (sp?) and the battery died, he took it to the dealer, $800 to replace it. Why? It's under the drivers seat, the power seat has to be removed to replace the battery. If that's German engineering at it's finest............
The battery in my Mercedes is under the backseat, I can remove it in two minutes. The Firestone shop removed the seat installed a new Mega-Tron Plus Interstate battery for just over $200 that was eight years ago. Toyota charged me $1000 for installation of a new water pump for my 2007 FJ Cruiser. Sh#t happens.
After owning and driving many types of car for 60 years, found that they all are POS. The two cars that I have purchased new and kept and consider the best, are the 1994 Toyota Supra TT and the 1999 MB E430 Sport. Great cars requiring very little maintenance and are a pleasure to drive.
Quality and reliability are two completely different things. Don't get 'em mixed up.
A Jaguar, Rolls or Bentley from the 1970's are of the highest quality but not reliable.
I love Cadillacs, too.
A Toyota Corolla is not quality no matter how reliable is. It's a cheap plastic car.
Quality is by definition the measure against a standard.
If the standard is V12 engine, hand stitched leather, 22" wheels, 31 coats of paint, and 0-60 in 5.0 seconds, certainly the Corolla won't stack up. If the standard is 7 years and 100,000 miles of trouble free driving, the Corolla towers.
IMO, the case is easily made that Corolla is a higher quality product, since the standard for most of the market is reliability not luxury.
We own current cars.
We own vintage cars.
We own vintage race cars.
We own motorcycles...
Our newest is a 2015 BMW.
Our oldest is a 1952 MG.
Our fastest is a 2010 Mercedes E550 Coupe.
Our slowest is a 1966 Triumph Spitfire.
I write an automotive column for a couple newspapers & a very popular blog on cars & car related life.
Whenever I read threads such as this one, I realize how little most folks really know about cars. If you really cannot tell the difference in driving dynamic between say, a Hyundai, Lexus & a Mercedes Benz, then you might as well simply buy the cheapest one (assuming that cheap is the most important factor for most folks on this thread).
There really are very few bad cars currently made. We're on our fourth Mercedes Benz, and very happy with it both in terms of reliability, quality, and primarily the actual driving experience. If you honestly can't tell the difference, don't pay the premium.
We recently replaced my wife's Cadillac SRX. It was a superb car, but sadly,at around 65,000 miles started experiencing difficult to trace electrical problems. She does the typical errand running, etc. She is also a licensed competition race driver, and has little interest in cars with mediocre performance. We drove all the vehicles that seemed like they might work for her: Subaru Outback, VW Jetta wagon, Volvo wagon, Mercedes ML, Audi Allroad, and more. By far, her favorite was the BMW 328i wagon & X3.
I really wanted her to like the Subaru or VW, because they're the cheapos. Alas, after she drove those, she immediately dismissed them as having significantly inferior interior, performance & handling.
So, she chose the BMW 328ix wagon. All-wheel drive, decent turbo engine, typically superior BMW driving dynamics. Great seats, nice leather, and wood trim.
Did we care a bit about future service costs? No. It came with free service for three years, no cost for anything except tires basically. Now here's a little secret about older (as in out of warranty) cars, especially high performance ones: How the car was treated, maintained, serviced, repaired, and driven by the original owner is an exceedingly important factor. sure, there can be the rare "Lemon", but those are very few, in reality. German cars (real ones, not made in Mexico ones) are typically very well built. As they age, they generally will require more costly repairs than Japanese, and increasingly, Korean cars. Swedish, meaning just Volvo these days currently lack the refinement and quality of Germans. They also utilize some very difficult to diagnose electrical systems; think CAN-bus...
If driving dynamics are not a primary factor in your car, then you're better off buying virtually any of the Japanese brands, or a Hyundai. Hyundai's sister company: KIA seems to be having a bit more difficulty in producing the high quality that Hyundai is building.
Currently, I think Mazda has the best driving Asian cars made.
If quiet & comfy are the most important factors; Lexus is a good choice. Especially if great handling isn't important to you...
The flaw in this logic is there is no material trade off gained. Now something like the new 911 GT3 RS and its normally-aspirated 500 hp 4.0L 8,800 rpm engine - you're not gonna get ~200k miles out of it like you would like a Civic or Camry, but there's a reason and a logical payoff for those willing to write that ~$185k check. However, there is ZERO excuse for a 328i or A6 or C300 to not be as reliable as a Lexus IS350 or GS350.
As to the topic at hand? It can be answered with simple logic: if German car buyers keep "buying" (read: make payments or lease) ever more cars irrespective of low reliability and high repair bills, why should German car makers make the effort to increase reliability or lower repair bills?
IMO, the case is easily made that Corolla is a higher quality product, since the standard for most of the market is reliability not luxury.
This isn't 1980. That is a low standard of meager expectations, one that every vehicle made in 2015 meets.
There is absolutely nothing special about it, especially when it's achieved by making a spartan appliance.
The differences between actual quality (not reliability) from top to bottom is enormous, very far from the fractions of a defect seen in surveys.
Because people just need a excuse to waste a ton of money on a perceived luxury item. There are you happy?
What a dumb thread.
I totally agree, I can understand a super wealthy guy who wants to use a car as a status symbol to get girls, I have no idea why anybody else would spend 100's of thousands on a fancy car especially if your an old married fart.
I totally agree, I can understand a super wealthy guy who wants to use a car as a status symbol to get girls, I have no idea why anybody else would spend 100's of thousands on a fancy car especially if your an old married fart.
"Because I like it" is reason enough.
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