Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I own both, a 2005 Expedition and a 2015 Odyssey. Wife drive's the Odyssey, I drive the expedition. I have had the expedition for 6.5 years and it has been more reliable than the 3 previous minivans I have owned.
The one thing people haven't considered yet in this thread is how much easier the V8 in the expedition is to work on. I can get to everything I need to with ease. Compare that to a transverse mounted v6 engine where you need to pull off the entire intake manifold just to get to the rear spark plugs (Mazda mpv) and it is way easier to work on the truck. I swore I would never get a vehicle with such a tight engine compartment (so we bought a vw routan), but that was such a piece of crap we got rid of it after 4 years. Now we are back in an Odyssey. Not sure if we will keep it after lease is up. Wife wants a new Expedition, but they are very expensive. I will wait until gas hits $5 a gallon and buy one then.
If you compare the amount of interior room in a mini-van such as a Toyota Sienna or the new Chrysler Pacifica, they both are superior to a giant SUV.
But that would be logical.
Some where along the way, driving a mini-van became uncool.
The biggest benefit to a Suburban is its towing ability. If you need to tow, that's the one to buy.
Although I drive an SUV, a GMC Envoy, I agree. In my case, I was looking for a cheap second car for going back & forth to work, with exceptional cargo room as a bonus, and such was what came up. It has worked OK for me so far for the most part, and for cheapl, so I'm grateful. However, I don't care for "image" and trends and such, I like what works and I can afford, and that came the closest. Had one came up, I could've just as easily gotten a minivan and if it was one that was getting me around OK, I'd been just as happy with it, possibly even a bit more.
People have the right to buy whatever they want for whatever reason, but I've long thought that looks trump practical issues many times in what people buy for their vehicle, and it's silly. I think of how you have a hard time finding a small car in hatchback form and how they typically show up as sedans with trunks, the hatchback versions almost always have more room for cargo especially if you fold down the seats but people tend to prefer sedan versions due to appearance. I've always thought that sort of thing silly.
In like manner, buying an SUV over a minivan just because "I wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan" has always been silly to me, especially when you're not talking about a stylish vehicle with either one anyway. If style is the point, to me a BMW 5-series or a Ferrari etc is more in line with that type of thing. Otherwise buy whatever works best without regard to looks. It's a vehicle, not a woman in a bikini.
The thread subject is on people that dont use them for anything but family use. Theres no reason to make any false assumptions that someone doesnt "like" them because they realize the reality that many people dont need them and dont utilize their full capabilities. The facts and market trends support this.
To get defensive about what a small percentage of people do is moot. To argue that posers and soccer moms dont exist and arent the majority of the buyers is just plain ignorance of the market. But if you think every Suburban, Escalade ESV, Denali XL, Navigator EL, Sequoia, QX56/80 and Range Rover you come across down at the mall sees off road and heavy duty towing or even full passengers on a regular basis...well believe what you want it wont make it true.
No defensiveness here. Just calling to task your opinion on how you know what people do with their vehicles. You made a lot of assumptions and formed a lot of opinions here on what you think people do with these vehicles, and I merely challenged those opinions as I and many others in here have told you that we do not fall into those categories. So, offering a different point of view to the OP who has formed a similar opinion based upon a few seconds of passing a vehicle in a parking lot or on a freeway. People use them for numbers of different reasons, so trying to break people down into categories is to paint with a VERY broad brush.
Market trends support that more people buy SUVs than mini-vans. That is IT. There is no survey taken when you buy an SUV that asks why you are buying it or what you intend to use it for. That is all opinion and therefore no fact can be applied to it. You may get a select few who don't use them, or a select few who do. But you will never be able to get enough factual data to support the assumption that most people who buy these vehicles do not actually use their capabilities.
No defensiveness here. Just calling to task your opinion on how you know what people do with their vehicles. You made a lot of assumptions and formed a lot of opinions here on what you think people do with these vehicles, and I merely challenged those opinions as I and many others in here have told you that we do not fall into those categories. So, offering a different point of view to the OP who has formed a similar opinion based upon a few seconds of passing a vehicle in a parking lot or on a freeway. People use them for numbers of different reasons, so trying to break people down into categories is to paint with a VERY broad brush.
There is a lot of defensiveness here. If you aren't a soccer mom that never pulls anything or goes off road then you have no reason to tell me what you do with your vehicle. Because I don't care. This thread isn't about you or your wife. Even though you admitted she doesn't tow with her Expedition. To be obtuse and deny that these people even exist is what's the issue here. Because they do. And there are a lot of them.
I don't have to hear one by one every C-D poster that comes across this thread to tell me they get their moneys worth out of their rig. Because for every one of you there's probably a dozen soccer moms or more who's SUVs never leave the pavement and have never used their trailer hitch. And lol at the idea of one of these type people preferring the V8 in their supercharged Range Rover because "it is easier to work on" than a transverse V6 shoved in to a FWD chassis.
Quote:
Market trends support that more people buy SUVs than mini-vans.
Lol, of course it does, and most of the SUVs sold these days are soft road car based crossovers. So what does that tell you? BOF SUVs are a shrinking market.
Quote:
But you will never be able to get enough factual data to support the assumption that most people who buy these vehicles do not actually use their capabilities.
Sure I can, there's probably polling data out there that you could buy or research on your own time. All I have to do is look at how the market is responding to it the demand. It is shrinking, so they are making less and pushing crossovers instead.
There is a lot of defensiveness here. If you aren't a soccer mom that never pulls anything or goes off road then you have no reason to tell me what you do with your vehicle. Because I don't care. This thread isn't about you or your wife. Even though you admitted she doesn't tow with her Expedition. To be obtuse and deny that these people even exist is what's the issue here. Because they do. And there are a lot of them.
I don't have to hear one by one every C-D poster that comes across this thread to tell me they get their moneys worth out of their rig. Because for every one of you there's probably a dozen soccer moms or more who's SUVs never leave the pavement and have never used their trailer hitch. And lol at the idea of one of these type people preferring the V8 in their supercharged Range Rover because "it is easier to work on" than a transverse V6 shoved in to a FWD chassis.
Lol, of course it does, and most of the SUVs sold these days are soft road car based crossovers. So what does that tell you? BOF SUVs are a shrinking market.
Sure I can, there's probably polling data out there that you could buy or research on your own time. All I have to do is look at how the market is responding to it the demand. It is shrinking, so they are making less and pushing crossovers instead.
So I'll leave it at this... as it is obvious you are going to stand by your opinion and ignore others and I don't wish to get into a twenty page argument with you since that seems to be your thing.
The OP said that he has heard of many people who buy these SUVs to use for soccer duty and such. And that he also heard they were more reliable. Many of us began explaining that they were used for more than soccer duty by a lot of families. We explained how we used them and provided our personal experiences since we actually own the vehicles in question. Who better to get real world data from than people who ACTUALLY own the vehicles he was asking about?
You then came in and began with your opinions of how no one really needs them or uses them as intended. You even went as far as to challenge the way that my family (including my MIL) uses theirs because I guess you've sat in the backseat on every trip taken with it and monitored our usage. While my wife doesn't tow with our Expedition, I have had to tow with it on occasion if my truck was down for maintenance. There's another of those times when you don't think we use it, when in reality it does get used when it is needed.
Nowhere have I denied that these types of people exist. I have said that one cannot make that assumption about a specific person though without seeing what they do with them all the time. Passing by someone on the freeway doesn't count.
I highlighted more of your assumptions for you. Feel free to go find that data and report back.
My posts were to provide a different point of view, since the OP was asking if what he heard was true. Those of us who have real world insight based on actual usage responded. A V8 is easier to work on than a transverse V6. Have you ever pulled the intake manifold off of a GMC Envoy to replace the 3 spark plugs in the rear head? I have. It took about 4 hours to do. I have changed all 8 plugs and coils in the Expedition in half that time. Things are just easier to get to, plus you don't have a firewall and cowl sitting above the engine forcing you to feel your way around the back of the engine to work on it. You can see everything and reach everything. Sorry if our actual experiences don't align with your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian
Lol, of course it does, and most of the SUVs sold these days are soft road car based crossovers. So what does that tell you? BOF SUVs are a shrinking market.
I did some research for you on the statistics of vehicles sold in the U.S. for 2016.
Cars are down an average of 13% across the board as compared to 2015.
Trucks are up 4.3%. Crossovers are up 1.7%.
Minivans are down 21.3%.
Small vans are down 42.4%.
Large vans are up 5.1%.
Midsize SUVs - down 5.7% Large SUVs - UP 51.6%. Small SUVs - down 8.9%
Luxury SUV - down 8.5%
So I'll leave it at this... as it is obvious you are going to stand by your opinion and ignore others and I don't wish to get into a twenty page argument with you since that seems to be your thing.
Why not just leave all this stuff out and get to the point.
Quote:
The OP said that he has heard of many people who buy these SUVs to use for soccer duty and such. And that he also heard they were more reliable. Many of us began explaining that they were used for more than soccer duty by a lot of families.
If that's what you perceived then it would have still been okay not to respond since you believe you aren't one of those people
Quote:
You then came in and began with your opinions of how no one really needs them or uses them as intended. You even went as far as to challenge the way that my family (including my MIL) uses theirs because I guess you've sat in the backseat on every trip taken with it and monitored our usage.
That's a lie. I never said NO ONE needs them. Your MIL either needs a towing vehicle or she doesn't. Either she has five people in the car with her all the time or most of the time and also has a need to tow and carry cargo with them on board or she doesn't. You brought her in to the discussion and have only provided what you thought was a supporting argument, which it isn't. Single anecodtes don't trump the market.
Quote:
Sorry if our actual experiences don't align with your opinion.
More passive aggressive humble bragging comments. None of the people I'm talking about will ever work on these cars. Some shadetree guy that can work on an old 350 on his 90's Suburban isn't going to know what to do with a Range Rover or an Ecoboost. But as always...cool story.
Why not just leave all this stuff out and get to the point.
If that's what you perceived then it would have still been okay not to respond since you believe you aren't one of those people
That's a lie. I never said NO ONE needs them. Your MIL either needs a towing vehicle or she doesn't. Either she has five people in the car with her all the time or most of the time and also has a need to tow and carry cargo with them on board or she doesn't. You brought her in to the discussion and have only provided what you thought was a supporting argument, which it isn't. Single anecodtes don't trump the market.
More passive aggressive humble bragging comments. None of the people I'm talking about will ever work on these cars. Some shadetree guy that can work on an old 350 on his 90's Suburban isn't going to know what to do with a Range Rover or an Ecoboost. But as always...cool story.
If you read above...... I just showed you the market. I noticed no response to that part.
That's just marketing. When it comes time to tally sales the people who count lump them in together. It isn't always the same thing to every media body, the EPA, or even the people selling them. If Car and Driver says that market is up 51.6% you'd be on to something. However, the total numbers sold is more important. Do you know how percentages work?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
People use them for numbers of different reasons, so trying to break people down into categories is to paint with a VERY broad brush.
