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The MB X Class isn't coming to North America per MB USA CEO: "Once the next version of the truck comes out—when we see the next iteration—there might be an opportunity to bring it [to the U.S.] in the medium and the long-term,"
I'm not saying it's an impossibility that Volvo couldn't sell an pickup. I'm just saying that it would be a difficult uphill battle that would take money that could be better spent developing vehicles that would sell. Dropping hundreds of millions developing a pickup for Volvo cars limits the ability to spend on keeping their good selling products up to date and competitive.
I dont care if it isnt coming here now or ever. The fact that a company like that even built is testament enough to counter your "argument" that Volvo couldnt market a truck because it goes against their typical marketing strategy. Mercedes has brought the Metris here to go to work not cajole luxury buyers.
I dont care if it isnt coming here now or ever. The fact that a company like that even built is testament enough to counter your "argument" that Volvo couldnt market a truck because it goes against their typical marketing strategy. Mercedes has brought the Metris here to go to work not cajole luxury buyers.
Then why mention it? Remember, MB is one of the largest commercial vehicle makers in the world - outside of North America. A pickup truck, even a premium one, makes sense in those markets. It's not a huge stretch for them to make one, especially since it's based on a Nissan so it allows the costs to be justified.
All I'm saying - again - is that Volvo doesn't have a commercial division any where in the world and attempting to sell a pickup would be a waste of energy and money. Trying to associate the love of Volvo trucks in the big rig world doesn't mean a Volvo pickup would sell. I've given you reasons why not and you have yet to give me any reason other than the above why it would work.
BTW, the Metris thus far has been underwhelming - MB has sold only 5,000 units in 2016 with a target of about 25,000. I like the Metris but it's not gaining traction.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD4020
Without Cummins the ram pickup would likely have gone the way of the Studebaker.
As far as Detroit diesels. The 60 series has been around for the last 30 years. Today you'll see Detroits in Western Stars and Freightliners. No longer the screaming Jimmys of days gone by. They are a very good engine.
Today's pickups have too much fluff and plastic to be taken seriously as a workhorse.
There was a hurky Canadian pickup that looked just like a KW, it too was short lived, the employees tried to revive, and THEY became short lived...
If you want a working pickup, you need to build your own. (The you will have no time to work, and some cell phone distracted driver might take out your handcrafted work of art.)
I still keep 3 1st gen CTD 4x4 duallies busy working. (<$5000)
They are not great, but can work with a few mods. (Brakes!)
A friend is installing a 13 speed Fuller in his, cuz we haul heavy (30,000) in MTNs, and stock trannies cannot handle it nor offer the gear ranges desired.
I also keep a Mack and KW around if needed. Very cheap to buy, very expensive to license and insure. Impossible for a certified many to build and certify a tough pickup that is also affordable. Gotta build your own. My CTDs will get vintage cabs as the Dodge part of the vehilcle erodes.
The problem with heavy truck manufacturers building pickups is them having to meet the upcoming fuel economy and emissions standards. Under the current law, CAFE has to include all vehicles manufactured. So the only way to build that vehicle is if it can get 50 mpg on the highway. Good luck with that. As was said before, your best bet is to purchase an old truck, and rebuild it the way you want.
The new engine technology creates more power, but at the cost of reliability, and huge maintenance costs once the truck gets old. New diesel and gas engines are using technology that only race cars had 30 years ago. High pressure turbos, dual vane turbos, some BMW's now are using a smaller low RPM turbo, and and larger high RPM turbo on the same motor. Direct injection, water injection, etc. Cool when new, a nightmare once the miles pile on.
If you are under 40 years old, I highly recommend getting an older truck while they are still affordable. Once just about every vehicle is a hybrid, which trust me will happen in the next 10 years or so, these older vehicles will significantly increase in value.
I dont care if it isnt coming here now or ever. The fact that a company like that even built is testament enough to counter your "argument" that Volvo couldnt market a truck because it goes against their typical marketing strategy. Mercedes has brought the Metris here to go to work not cajole luxury buyers.
Well... Address the reality of it. Much like Hollywood movies, there's a budget when the manufacturer decides to design something. And if the movie is a flop, the producers take the hit, just like the manufacturer takes the hit. 1. Research and development.
It would take time to develop a suspension+steering system, frame, a body, and driveline. Wind tunnel time for aero dynamic body designs, isn't cheap. Would you just take the current engine from volvos cars and stuff it into a truck frame? Or design a new one? I'd guess to become anything interesting you'd design a new engine. Now it has to meet the stricter emissions set in stone from CARB EPA and get mileage set in stone by CAFE. Marketing research, either paying pollsters or people to research forums or other devices to see what makes a current production pickup truck appeal to the masses. Correlation between marketing research and engineering teams. Engineers like mechanics, good ones aren't cheap, cheap ones aren't good. So now you have a running driving product after millions invested, it has to meet safety guidelines front, side, and rollover standards. 2. Cost of manufacture
Can they simply retool a current existing factory and meet production goals for "in demand" products and produce the pickup in the same plant as one of their sellers? Or would having to acquire land and building a new facility plus cost of tooling, plus labor. There is only so much robots in automated factories can do without some human element present controlling and over seeing... One machine on the fritz could lead to an engine assembled without head gaskets. (Try explaining to ford you have a vehicle in that's overheating and it didn't leave the factory with head gaskets and some how up until recently didn't have a problem I've experienced it ford sent a field service engineer out to further confirm a 4.6 in an F150 didn't have a head gasket installed) 3. Models and sub models.
Would you produce such a Volvo pickup with
1. 2 or 4 wheel drive, rubber floors, vinyl seats, crank up windows, an AM/FM radio steel wheels as a work truck
2. A basic truck with power windows locks and power cloth seats
3. Boss status cow boy cadillac heated air conditioned leather premium audio system navigation sun roof power everything including rear window in the cab. Blue tooth everything, inverters to run power to small appliances. 4. Cab and bed configurations and power train options
Are you going to build just regular cabs? Extended cabs? Crew cabs? A 5 1/2 foot 6 foot 6 and a 1/2 foot and 8 foot bed? Have a one for all engine, or build 3-4 different engine options and transmissions options and differential gearings plus posi or one tire fire/peg leg rears? Gas diesel automatic or stick? Suspension packaging for an alternative to the typical truck ride and something intended to haul and tow? Or a sport truck suspension meant to overtake a camaro in a corner or off-road sport truck to jump ditches and not send a knuckle into the frame and wheel into a fender?
Remember-if the mini trucks were selling they wouldn't have gone the way of the carburetor. Hearing the statement "some folks found a purpose for them" while true A lot of folks didn't. Compare prices of mini trucks to full size get a whole lot more truck in a Silverado F series and Ram for what a Tacoma runs for, for the same money.
Some=niche market.
"Some" sold compared to the numbers reported via dealer to manufacturer mini truck vs 1/2 ton. I myself am I niche customer. Why buy a Camaro which is hideous, a Mustang, a Challenger?-To pay the insurance high premiums being young, and single? No to hell with that, I like my money in my pocket as much as possible. They're going to profiteer because I'm a liability. They can pound sand.
So a "muscle car" lost it's appeal with me a VERY long time ago. I can build a pickup to do whatever I want haul tow to the moon, out corner anything in current production form. Can't do that with an econobox so that rules that out, plus econoboxes in certain areas cost as much to insure as a muscle or sports car do. Example being where I live, honda civics are commonly stolen cars. Doesn't matter what the year, insurance is high on them. In NY they were dirt cheap to insure.
Bottom line A manufacturer is out to make money, Volvo "playing it safe" by not risking the share of the pickup market, is a smart move. Want a Volvo pickup? Buy a Volvo wagon, a reciprocating saw, a welder and make one yourself. My dad owned a Chevy SSR. I didn't have 60k disposable dollar bills and I wanted a convertible pickup truck too. I Built my own, was faster, louder, cornered at higher speeds, didn't have traction control or ABS, or air bags, for a lot less. Had a 4 speed opposed to automatic. Got more attention than his did, both by police and everyday drivers and paid 80 bucks a month for insurance.
Then why mention it? Remember, MB is one of the largest commercial vehicle makers in the world - outside of North America. A pickup truck, even a premium one, makes sense in those markets. It's not a huge stretch for them to make one, especially since it's based on a Nissan so it allows the costs to be justified.
Why not. You mentioned Volvo's market perception being a reason not to build it. There's plenty of reasons for M-B or any other company to enter a new market, which in their case was a premium pickup. Porsche is building SUVs, BMW is being more liberal with the M badge. And on and on...simply saying that brand shouldn't do something because they haven't done it before is no valid reason to say why they shouldn't. BTW, I love it when people like you establish boundaries on what can and can't be brought up in a topic as hypothetical as this one.
Volvo is well established as a heavy truck maker and thus has the cred to make a go of it as good or better than Mack, Kenworth, etc because they have a better dealer presence.
Quote:
BTW, the Metris thus far has been underwhelming - MB has sold only 5,000 units in 2016 with a target of about 25,000. I like the Metris but it's not gaining traction.
Would you just take the current engine from volvos cars and stuff it into a truck frame?
...lol. I stopped reading. How many times do I have to say that they would get Volvo trucks to help them develop a 250/350/450 class vehicle and not use a current production "car" engine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe
The problem with heavy truck manufacturers building pickups is them having to meet the upcoming fuel economy and emissions standards. Under the current law, CAFE has to include all vehicles manufactured. So the only way to build that vehicle is if it can get 50 mpg on the highway. Good luck with that. As was said before, your best bet is to purchase an old truck, and rebuild it the way you want.
Volvo would have an advantage here by being able to balance it out with their current lineup once/when/if these types of vehicles stop being exempt.
You talk about how useless all those mid-sized trucks were, but plenty of people found a use for them. Then you go on to describe the ultimate useless truck, and you'd want to buy one. Why?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87
If they sold, and made Ford, Mopar, and GM money why aren't they still in existence?
Useless maybe in Alaska, in snow. I should show you a picture of my C10 and see how ya really feel it had no roof slammed to the ground. Was my spring through fall toy.
But for what I'd need it/want it for, would serve it's purpose just fine. Cart a quad/dirt bike, even if the tailgate had to be down. And go like a bat outta hell. If I had to pull a small block from a junkyard to bring home to build for a toy it could do that. Haul a T10/M22 it could do that. Plus people price out 67-72 C10s in that range with wimpy crate engines and slush box TH350s. Aside from the paint jobs and wheels you couldn't tell them apart for the most part...
No more winter to worry about down here so it would actually be practical year round for me. Already have a 14 CCSB so if I had to take a group of people with me there's that...
If I need a cheap work truck they don't rot down here a TBI 350 reg cab short box can be had for under $1000. Vortec 350 96-99 1500-2k or a 99-02 4.8-6.0 3-6500
The problem is that they morphed from mid-size to 7/8 size and became way too expensive. Last June I bought a loaded Silverado LTZ that had a factory sticker price of $52,430. I paid $36,662 for it. That's for a brand new truck, 12 miles on the odo, and no trade in. A few weeks later I saw a 2016 Colorado mid-level trim for $37,000. The LTZ is much better equipped and much more comfortable and roomier. So I have absolutely no incentive to buy a Colorado. If Ford, Chevy and Toyota went back to the same size they had 20 years ago they wouldn't have any problem selling them.
The problem is that they morphed from mid-size to 7/8 size and became way too expensive... If Ford, Chevy and Toyota went back to the same size they had 20 years ago they wouldn't have any problem selling them.
Toyota sold almost 180k Tacomas last year which is the highest ever over the past 16 years so I dont think they are having problems. GM is doing well with the Colorado and Canyon and Ford is going to get back in the game with the next Ranger.
People still want to do truck things with these vehciles and they also have to pass safety regs so we will never get back to little Luvs and Mighty Maxs running around. To be able to tow a decent load dictates the 7/8s size you abhor and although I understand where you are coming from I just believe that the market forces have brought us here and theres no going back.
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