U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-07-2017, 07:06 PM
 
39,246 posts, read 40,617,533 times
Reputation: 16091

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by headingtoDenver View Post
Don't you remember hearing all about car thefts due to shaved keys?
I had a Buick Century the key/ignition was so wore out you could pull the key out of it with the ignition on. It was actually pretty nice feature.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-08-2017, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,085 posts, read 2,041,552 times
Reputation: 6713
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikabike View Post
Cover your VINs when you are parked.
What about your license plates? With the license plate number it is relatively easy to get your VIN. So I'm not sure you are accomplishing much doing that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2017, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Research Triangle, NC
1,206 posts, read 1,256,300 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
I'm not sure I trust the opinions of any reporter who calls a ring of car thieves ""Hooligans."
Per the article, the name of the gang is "Hooligans."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2017, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Research Triangle, NC
1,206 posts, read 1,256,300 times
Reputation: 750
Key codes stored in a proprietary database and all the duplicate key requests trace back to the same dealership?

Among the (predictable) responses of "see, mechanical keys are the best!" no one has mentioned that this is almost certainly an inside job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2017, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
430 posts, read 180,758 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana49 View Post
There are good electronic keys and there are bad electronic keys.

The good ones... There are no codes. The factory has to send out a replacement key that they code to a particular VIN, and they will only send that key to the dealership. The dealership, in turn, will only request a key be made if you have a valid registration for that car and can prove proof of ownership (driver's license, etc.)

My Mercedes is like this. You can't clone a key, no one else can go to a dealership and ask the factory to code a key unless they also have my DL and the title as proof of ownership, and if you do go buy a "blank" uncoded key, the dealership can't code it to your car, only the factory can.

Pretty much foolproof, which is why you don't see Mercedes ever on the list of most stolen cars. High end manufacturers all do stuff like this, it's the lower tier brands that don't bother with this level of security that are putting their customers at risk.
That's whats got me a little confused. I had a crappy little 96 Intrepid and I needed new keys since I somehow lost the originals. I had to provide the VIN, license plate number, title receipt, my drivers license, and a copy of my court ordered name change (since the name on the title was my old name) just for them to even start the key making process. Car was a royal hunk of junk and I wasn't expecting all that just to get a couple keys made, but i felt better knowing they went through all those steps prior instead of just making keys for whoever walks in and claims the car is theirs.

And the keys I had weren't even electronic. Little turn key, simple.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2017, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Boulder Colorado
11 posts, read 4,310 times
Reputation: 24
Default Car door and trunk security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Aren't there only like 300 key combinations for the doors for each manufacturer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post

The ignition has far more combinations, but for the doors and trunk, it's not unheard of for someone to have the same key. You'll often hear about that at Christmastime.. someone puts the presents in the wrong car because their key opened the trunk.






The door lock was never intended to make a vault out of a car.




Car makers and the insurers are concerned about theft of the vehicle, and not so much on the contents.


That said, locks for many cars have improved greatly, increasing the number of permutations ( possible keys ) as well as dramatically tightening up of tolerances. I believe they are on the right track. Some handles fail if one punches at the lock, so those components could be improved.


A Toyota Camry, 2015 has a potential 1048576 different keys. Key interchange is unlikely. Older 1970s-1980s Toyota models sported only 4096 total potential keys, and much looser tolerances.


I agree somewhat with the reports linked to, though they are presenting a situation where they may have access to a token, or can successfully intercept communication by other means. At present, these would be considered low-incidence, high loss possibilities, and further study with vehicles one does not have prior access to would be necessary. As time goes by, devices to reset immo devices have hit the streets, and this is a direct result of pushbutton-start ignitions that do not have a unique key element.


There are NUMEROUS unintended consequences beyond hacking that has predictably occurred, due to there being no need to insert a key into a lock, or at minimal, insert fob into a slot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2017, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Boulder Colorado
11 posts, read 4,310 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana49 View Post
There are good electronic keys and there are bad electronic keys.

The good ones... There are no codes. The factory has to send out a replacement key that they code to a particular VIN, and they will only send that key to the dealership. The dealership, in turn, will only request a key be made if you have a valid registration for that car and can prove proof of ownership (driver's license, etc.)

My Mercedes is like this. You can't clone a key, no one else can go to a dealership and ask the factory to code a key unless they also have my DL and the title as proof of ownership, and if you do go buy a "blank" uncoded key, the dealership can't code it to your car, only the factory can.

Pretty much foolproof, which is why you don't see Mercedes ever on the list of most stolen cars. High end manufacturers all do stuff like this, it's the lower tier brands that don't bother with this level of security that are putting their customers at risk.


Aftermarket blank keys can be programmed into Mercedes, just not by the dealer. This is a response to the demand of car owners to be able to get keys when they need them, not the following week. Imagine being on a trip, losing your keys and towing it to the dealer on a holiday weekend.... to have dealer order the keys the following Tuesday, then you get car back...maybe....Friday.


The problem is such that California Locksmiths get direct cooperation from BMW, so at least in that one state, keys can be completed within 24 hours ( Though without BMW this can be done by advanced techniques by locksmiths, even if dealer says "all the keys for that car have already been purchased, you need a new immobilizer system, etc $$$$ etc $$$
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top