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Just look at how quickly people dumped the horse when the car became available.
About a decade ago there was excellent article where they used an electric car over a common 19th century horse drawn carriage route. The car took longer....
Granted the technology is better today and will be much better tomorrow but there is lot of people that require vehicles that can be driven long distances here in the US. Even if charging stations are available along your route it's going to take much longer.
Back in my early 20's a friend and I started on North rim of the Grand Canyon at about 5AM >> Las Vegas >> Death Valley >> Mammoth Lakes and camped on the eastern side of Yosemite about 7 or 8 PM. You're not going to make that trip with an electric car especially in the time we did it.
I realize this is not a normal example but the point is trying to use the transition from horses to cars is not a very good one. While there may be benefits to electric cars they have limitations compared to gasoline vehicles.
The basic point of it is that when we have our own cars, where we go is really no one else's business but having a network of automated cars that are centrally own makes it anyone's business.
Whether it's autonomous or not your movements can tracked. This is really a separate discussion. Whether it's your phone, car or Roomba your personal data/histories should remain your property. I hate to say it but it's something that needs to be addressed through legislation.
Whether it's autonomous or not your movements can tracked. This is really a separate discussion. Whether it's your phone, car or Roomba your personal data/histories should remain your property. I hate to say it but it's something that needs to be addressed through legislation.
Not necessarily.
The Forester is old; it still has a tape deck. The phone doesn't use a data plan and it's location "beacon" is turned off.
But it is another thing, too. Let's consider the computer one might use at work. Who decides if that computer can be searched? The company because it is their computer; it does not belong to the worker who uses it.
If someone decides to improperly access the data of my car, it can be argued that it is an improper search unless all the legal items are covered because it is my car. The same claim, however, can't be made with a self driven car because that car belongs to someone else.
About a decade ago there was excellent article where they used an electric car over a common 19th century horse drawn carriage route. The car took longer....
Granted the technology is better today and will be much better tomorrow but there is lot of people that require vehicles that can be driven long distances here in the US. Even if charging stations are available along your route it's going to take much longer.
Back in my early 20's a friend and I started on North rim of the Grand Canyon at about 5AM >> Las Vegas >> Death Valley >> Mammoth Lakes and camped on the eastern side of Yosemite about 7 or 8 PM. You're not going to make that trip with an electric car especially in the time we did it.
I realize this is not a normal example but the point is trying to use the transition from horses to cars is not a very good one. While there may be benefits to electric cars they have limitations compared to gasoline vehicles.
Reminds me of an episode of The Knick which was set back in the early 1900's, they got a new electric ambulance and they were awed by it, until one day it got really cold and the thing wouldn't work. They had to go back to the horse and carriage.
I'm actually amazed at how many people think electric cars is some new technology. The fact is electric cars already existed before the ICE, so actually it's the oldest technology.
I own a small popup camper. I want to go camping. Do I summon a car to come pick me and my camper up?
I'm camping in the middle of nowhere. Does the car stay with me, or does it go away, and what if I'm in an area that is remote enough for me to not have a way to call it back?
I'm not against self-driving cars, but I'm not interested in them and don't want to be limited by them. I find the idea to be very limiting, quite honestly.
There is no reason you can't own your own self driving car or whatever. In addition to that there is many possibilities it can open. One of the inevitabilities with this will be base vehicles that can mate with different things. For example you may have a larger base that would mate with cargo boxes, flat beds or a <drum roll>....camper. You can have it pick the camper up and drop it off at your destination...
It's very interesting idea and one example of how this tech can expand access to personal transportation. Instead of buying the whole car you would just buy the cabin. This could make personal transportation available to many people that can't afford it now. If you are someone that needs flexibility it won't be option for you and you'll have to buy the whole vehicle like you do now.
Oh but you just wait! Making non autonomous cars illegal is around the corner. For your benefit, of course. You guys seriously need to read the BIG plans, not what you want or not want to happen. BIG plan is - it will all be electric, all autonomous and thereafter, it does not really matter, if it's yours or a program car.
Folks, pay attention. this is EVERYWHERE. Articles here or there. Movies. Books. Online. Gadgets. Apps. It is all geared towards one thing - when the man at the helm says stop - all cars stop. Same as with the new plague - digital money. You had "money" - now you don't. Just like they are removing 50 and 100 pound notes. Or euros, whatever it is. Trend is towards removing cash out of circulation completely and replacing either with cards/ skin barcodes/ chips/ bitcoins or such. Then boommm...
I have enough faith that the powerful banking lobbies won't allow anything that will greatly screw up their business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supton
Call me crazy, but if we to hit rewind and go back to what, 1995, would anyone here believe that everyone alive would have a smartphone today? Predicting the future can be really hard. I too find it hard to believe that autos would be driven out of the market place in twenty years; but disruptive technologies have happened before.
Looking back on it, I don't think it was ridiculous to think that about smart phones. Sure, people might not have thought it would incorporate into a telephone, but technology was getting rapidly more accessible and compact for 30 years by the 90's, with no indications it wouldn't continue to get progressively cheaper and more compact. Anyway, companies panning a new market development happens in many industries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah
Then, I will spell it out.
I want to visit one of my lovers. Do I want a record of how often I visit him, where he lives, does he want such a record to exist. Do I want to be dropped off a few blocks from his house and walk that in a strange neighborhood? Do I want to answer any questions to anyone I might meet along the way?
Or would I rather drive there direct, just another car in the mass, not worrying about anything special I might be carrying for that visit?
I want to go to, say, The Silver Dollar in San Antonio. Do I want a record that I visited the gay bar area of that city that people I don't know may view and form conclusions that might be used against me?
I want a copy of Dance magazine. Now, with the demise of Hastings, the one place I can be pretty sure that has a copy (and probably only one copy) is an XXX bookstore in Austin. Do I want a record that I went there?
The basic point of it is that when we have our own cars, where we go is really no one else's business but having a network of automated cars that are centrally own makes it anyone's business.
This. There are simply, times when I wish not to be tracked or anything else. I'm walking my dog, and I'm not taking my cell phone or anything else with me. I'm going to enjoy a beer in the tavern, and am not going to be hassled about it. One thing about my generation (I am a millennial) is that we can't seem to keep the more mundane but also special moments private. I actually argue with my wife about it periodically. Some things I want to keep just for us.
It's presumptuous of the bureaucrats who drafted this plan to assume battery tech will be that advanced in 23 years.
It might be, but no one really can predict. I think it's realistic to say that in 50 years, cars will go 1000 miles on a charge, will recharge within 10 minutes, and will mostly drive themselves.
But there will be a "Land Traffic Control" grid that makes sure you don't have autonomous vehicles crashing into each other, running down pedestrians, ramming into houses, etc. It will know where all vehicles are, at all times. No more privacy.
In 50 years, people will be disabling the location beacons of their vehicles to reclaim a bit of privacy, for example to go to a secret tryst. The only problem is, the sensors on the roads will notice an unregistered "black" vehicle and will alert the police. So people will put in hacked beacons that give misleading info -- tells them I'm going to the convenience store when in fact I'm headed for the whorehouse across town.
Of course, in 50 years, robots will be pretty common, and you'll send your domestic robot to the store to buy stuff. The clerk at the store will also be a robot, as will be the stockers, truck drivers, and warehouse workers. The crops will be harvested by robots, too. Robots will build the robots. Probably a lot of the sex workers will be robots.
I want to visit one of my lovers. Do I want a record of how often I visit him, where he lives, does he want such a record to exist. Do I want to be dropped off a few blocks from his house and walk that in a strange neighborhood? Do I want to answer any questions to anyone I might meet along the way?
Or would I rather drive there direct, just another car in the mass, not worrying about anything special I might be carrying for that visit?
I want to go to, say, The Silver Dollar in San Antonio. Do I want a record that I visited the gay bar area of that city that people I don't know may view and form conclusions that might be used against me?
I want a copy of Dance magazine. Now, with the demise of Hastings, the one place I can be pretty sure that has a copy (and probably only one copy) is an XXX bookstore in Austin. Do I want a record that I went there?
The basic point of it is that when we have our own cars, where we go is really no one else's business but having a network of automated cars that are centrally own makes it anyone's business.
Wow.
Now you have me curious as to what you do in your free time.
Seriously, for a number of reasons including lower costs and less environmental impact, I think most of us can see the trend is moving toward electric/alternative-fueled vehicles.
So, I give the UK government credit for at least taking the initiative and trying to get in front of the curve instead of being behind it and having to play catch-up, by trying to plan for what is probably an inevitable eventuality.
People aren't going to give up car ownership for it though. They'll just own a fancier car that parks itself.
Indeed. For some weird reason, journalists and bloggers always conflate EV autonomy with no ownership.
People who don't want to own a car, need not to wait for electric autonomous cars. Just call Uber. It works the same way.
Moms with their cars full of baby seats, bumper seats, snacks, and equipment for their kids activities will just laugh at the idea of not owning a car. Ditto for anybody who uses bike/ski/kayak racks, trailers or whatever additional to a basic ride.
And even simply reading through posts, one can already notice a trend of posters agreeing to an idea of this or that.
That is how crowd is guided in a desired direction.
First something is tossed out as eccentric, strange idea. Then, tolerance to it is promoted. As tolerance develops, acceptance comes in play and it slowly becomes norm. As it became norm, it becomes obligatory. After it became obligatory, non compliance is punished.
Want simple example? Gay marriage. Look at its progress. I keep forgetting who put science behind this process, it's (name) windows. One window is opened, that leads to another window leading to another and so on, until goal is accomplished.
Folks, we are talking strategies, not tomorrow. Strategies that are lined for 50-100-200 years into the future and religiously followed. Example is simple. Plan to dismantle USSR was coined in mid- 40s of the 20th century. Took them 50 years to accomplish it.
And here you come, with your "I don't want this, disagree with that". You WILL agree with what WILL come, like it or not and, in a manner you won't even notice how and when.
As of the particular timetable. There is a a man in the know. Ron Kurzveil. He has a book with dates in it and if you want to, you can read through and find out, when and what will come.
Those of you younger here, as I shall not, that will last till 2040 - mind the post and year. As it WILL come the way Elite wants it. Unless big crap will happen.
Also, look into Holland (yep, there is reason Holland or Switzerland are pioneering a lot of things) that already runs fleet of autonomous trucks. Truck driver is profession to die. So is cabbie. Parking attendant, valet. Insurance agent, as there will be no accidents. Bolts ans nuts turner, as cars will self diagnose and go to hub for repair by a robot. Example? Here's your fan boy, Elon, showing that it takes same time to replace two Tesla batteries at service station, by a robot, that it takes a human to fill a midsize car tank with petrol. So IN PRINCIPLE any future car can simply be repaired based on the same idea. And you already have sound designs of cars where everything is modular and you can have one set for you for whatever trip you want to at whatever comfort level, based on standard chassis and interchangable components.
All this will be touted as benefit to humanity. Bloody car wrecks will be shown on TV or online, followed by happy faced autonomous cars cruisers, enjoying work or entertainment while they are carried SAFELY to their destinations. Then a senator, an Al Gore type, will raise question about making "dangerous" cars illegal. After some discontent from the crowd of the die hard fanatics, law will be implemented. And that will be it.
Remember - it is ALWAYS for the benefit of YOU, the customer. Like damn modern healthcare and health insurances. Someone, somewhere along the history of this country, VOTED for all this. Complied.
When they came up with the first steam engine train, they had to put prisoners on board as passengers, to show that it is actually safe and not devil's work. They had law telling any automobile to have a fellow with red flag walk in front of it to caution people in the streets. Very serious, intelligent people did all this. And what happened next?
So have no doubt.
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