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Yeah, I just looked at a video, you have to remove the power steering pump and loosen up a bunch of other stuff to get at it so the price probably isn't out of line. When you said you could see where it was leaking I assumed it was in the traditional location on top and easy to get to. It still seems a little high to me, but I'm spoiled by local labor rates that are way under the national average.
I agree that they should have manned up and eaten the labor charge for the hose replacement. Hoses wear out, so even if they'd determined that the housing was bad you'd think they'd at least do a visual inspection while they had it apart. It should have been obvious that there was a problem.
Yes it is somewhat of a pain to get to as some other engine components need to be worked in first. Yes they should have definitely tested it better the first time.
Yeah, maybe it does depend on the car. I have never had a car where I replaced the PCV valve which cost more than a few bucks, and a few minutes of time. I recently replaced the PCV valve on my Mitsubishi Montero. The part was about $3, and it took me less than 5 minutes, which included the time to pop the hood, prop it open, pull the hose off, pull the old valve out, put the new one in, put the hose back on, and close the hood.
Maybe I should try replacing it myself....as long as it not a pain to get to. Of course it might be crappy of me to no show after they order the part lol.
Well, the hose would add to the cost. Just as an FYI, I went to Repair Pal and looked up the cost to have the PCV valve replaced on my vehicle, and it is listed as $138 to $195! That is crazy!
I looked again at the quote and it says pcv valve assembly. Not sure if that includes the hose
Good points and I guess there is not much I can do to recoup. Threatening not to do business with them will not help because I am sure they know I don't trust them anyway.
/quote]
Good mechanics are a tough find, took me 3 tries in a city full of auto repair shops to find one.
He charged me $550 to replace lower intake manifold gasket, valve cover(PVC is built in), and fuel filter.
That's a LOT more in labor than your initial repairs.
You can recoup your $, by using a form like this in your state: Illinois Attorney General - Filing a Consumers Complaint
Plus the 130 for the valve. That adds up to almost 800.
Ford Fusion
Ok, but how did he know the PCV valve was bad at the start? He 'tested' to find the thermostat.. SHOULD have caught the hose there.. But the PCV, unless you had a light on before you took it in, he had zero way to know that was bad. Worst case, he could have seen a pending code set, but you don't replace things based on pending codes. So, adding that last $130 in there.. I consider that a separate issue. Just bad luck. And this is the one part that I don't have any issues with the repair charges on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago45
They charge $90 per hour but I got a AAA discount. But I seriously doubt it takes anywhere close to an hour to change it.
This is part of the reason I didn't really say anything about the PCV replacement. I was actually figuring shop time of $100/hr and a minimum 1 hour charge. At that point, the $130 is actually rather in line. You figure the valve being $10, add in his markup, then the labor then taxes.. Honestly, $130 isn't horrendous.. Unless you sit there and look at how easy it is to do that yourself. $130 vs $15 is a trap that many people fall into thinking they're being 'ripped off'.. They're not. It's the old itemized bill.. 10 cents for turning a screw, $499.90 for knowing which screw to turn. Is it perhaps a touch high? Maybe, but I really don't think so.
$400 for a thermostat on that car.. First off, the Tstat is about $50, figure $100 with markup.. There is no way.. No WAY that takes three hours. Look, my truck thermostat, the first thing you do to change it is remove the left front tire. The Fusion... It's a tad buried.. Not bad tho. I am making an assumption here because i'm not familiar with the '13. As with anything on a car, you've got to work to get to one of the bolts, but not three hours of work.
Now.. Let's just say OK that was fair.. Fine.. The additional charge for the hose that they flat out missed.. A shop that is doing the right thing, and this is my opinion on it, they would charge you for the part. Since you IDed the hose, I'm going to assume that it was the upper radiator hose. It would be totally fair of them to charge you for that part, which would be another $40-$50, working under this double cost theory. Charging you labor again to replace something they missed. I have a problem there, especially since they missed it the first time. And I can't say anything other than this was a miss, if there was coolant spraying over the engine compartment and they did nothing. They missed it. That wasn't coming from the thermostat and they knew it.
Fair charges.. This is my opinion on this, and someone who does this for a living can weigh in on my estimates, which I am purposefully going a touch high on. I'd love someone who does this for a living to weigh in on it, honestly. Am I way off base here? I don't have the guides for labor times, which reputable shops use.
Thermostat Replacement - $225 (1 hour labor, $100 for part, plus I tossed an extra $25 in there for topping off coolant and 'misc')
Upper Radiator Hose Replacement - $175 (1 hour labor, $50 for part, and $25 for coolant top-off, etc)
PCV Valve - $130 I find mostly fair, believe it or not. $30 for the part, 1 hour labor.
So, that brings total bill to $530.. And personally, I think the Upper Hose labor.. If it were me, I couldn't charge someone for my mistake, so.. Take $75 labor off there figuring in if they had done the tstat and hose at the same time, it might have been an hour 15 total labor.. All this work.. $455
That's where I see pricing being fair. Since we hit basically right at $450.. I could wiggle and say anywhere in the $400 to $500 range.
as for what I said earlier about head gasket.. Let me clarify that. There's a section around here that I swear has a search filter for the word overheat in a post in this forum and then they reply back with the head gasket has failed due to the overheating and say it's time to throw the car away. So, certainly was not implying that had happened to you, just poking fun at some folks who pull out that crutch.
Ok, but how did he know the PCV valve was bad at the start? He 'tested' to find the thermostat.. SHOULD have caught the hose there.. But the PCV, unless you had a light on before you took it in, he had zero way to know that was bad. Worst case, he could have seen a pending code set, but you don't replace things based on pending codes. So, adding that last $130 in there.. I consider that a separate issue. Just bad luck. And this is the one part that I don't have any issues with the repair charges on.
This is part of the reason I didn't really say anything about the PCV replacement. I was actually figuring shop time of $100/hr and a minimum 1 hour charge. At that point, the $130 is actually rather in line. You figure the valve being $10, add in his markup, then the labor then taxes.. Honestly, $130 isn't horrendous.. Unless you sit there and look at how easy it is to do that yourself. $130 vs $15 is a trap that many people fall into thinking they're being 'ripped off'.. They're not. It's the old itemized bill.. 10 cents for turning a screw, $499.90 for knowing which screw to turn. Is it perhaps a touch high? Maybe, but I really don't think so.
$400 for a thermostat on that car.. First off, the Tstat is about $50, figure $100 with markup.. There is no way.. No WAY that takes three hours. Look, my truck thermostat, the first thing you do to change it is remove the left front tire. The Fusion... It's a tad buried.. Not bad tho. I am making an assumption here because i'm not familiar with the '13. As with anything on a car, you've got to work to get to one of the bolts, but not three hours of work.
Now.. Let's just say OK that was fair.. Fine.. The additional charge for the hose that they flat out missed.. A shop that is doing the right thing, and this is my opinion on it, they would charge you for the part. Since you IDed the hose, I'm going to assume that it was the upper radiator hose. It would be totally fair of them to charge you for that part, which would be another $40-$50, working under this double cost theory. Charging you labor again to replace something they missed. I have a problem there, especially since they missed it the first time. And I can't say anything other than this was a miss, if there was coolant spraying over the engine compartment and they did nothing. They missed it. That wasn't coming from the thermostat and they knew it.
Fair charges.. This is my opinion on this, and someone who does this for a living can weigh in on my estimates, which I am purposefully going a touch high on. I'd love someone who does this for a living to weigh in on it, honestly. Am I way off base here? I don't have the guides for labor times, which reputable shops use.
Thermostat Replacement - $225 (1 hour labor, $100 for part, plus I tossed an extra $25 in there for topping off coolant and 'misc')
Upper Radiator Hose Replacement - $175 (1 hour labor, $50 for part, and $25 for coolant top-off, etc)
PCV Valve - $130 I find mostly fair, believe it or not. $30 for the part, 1 hour labor.
So, that brings total bill to $530.. And personally, I think the Upper Hose labor.. If it were me, I couldn't charge someone for my mistake, so.. Take $75 labor off there figuring in if they had done the tstat and hose at the same time, it might have been an hour 15 total labor.. All this work.. $455
That's where I see pricing being fair. Since we hit basically right at $450.. I could wiggle and say anywhere in the $400 to $500 range.
as for what I said earlier about head gasket.. Let me clarify that. There's a section around here that I swear has a search filter for the word overheat in a post in this forum and then they reply back with the head gasket has failed due to the overheating and say it's time to throw the car away. So, certainly was not implying that had happened to you, just poking fun at some folks who pull out that crutch.
That is a fair assessment. Any chance they reimburse me some of that if I threaten not to return? I have also considered contacting my credit card company to reverse the charge or report them as a previous posted suggested if they are not willing to budge.
I am okay with the first visit charge and paying for the part only on the second visit. They did not even call me to tell me how much they would charge me the second time...did not find out until I went to pick up my car.
Debating whether to 1) Go back to the shop and let them install the pcv valve and then see if they are willing to budge on the cost (if not then try to recoup some of that through the other channels mentioned) or 2) No show my appointment to have the pcv valve installed and go to a different shop. Then try to recoup some of that via the other channels without further negotiatons with the shop. They wouldn't cave in when I politely protested the cost of the second visit so why would they now?
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