CVTs are everywhere - have we finally accepted their reliability? (spark plugs, brake)
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But for an automobile maker, a CVT does its job relatively well, and is cheaper to build. Automobile makers aren't putting a CVT in a car just for the benefit of the "buyer," but to the benefit of the shareholders. No product out there becomes cheaper form year to year, so the industry has to figure ways to reduce production costs, while maintaining net profits.
I am not sure where you are getting your cost information, but an EPA report states that the cost of a transmission for Model Year 2020 are:
The CVT is no less expensive than a 9 speed automatic transmission. Level 2 refers to advanced features like paddle shifters.
The cheapest transmission is a 5 speed automatic transmission, but the automaker has to be concerned with fuel economy to meet EPA requirements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover
A lot of the people here who say they're unreliable, have never had a failure with a CVT, have never even owned a vehicle with one, and they seem to just repeat what they hear, and I get that same feeling about a lot of the web postings - not based on much. It may be because I am a scientist, but I want more than "people are saying"... especially when my own experience with a CVT showed no issues, none.
I think it is a well known fact easily confirmed that replacing a CVT is more expensive than replacing other transmissions, That doesn't mean they are more or less reliable, but if they must be replaced it is more expensive.
This article is from AAMCO, a transmission repair place, and is unlikely to be biased.
What are the Benefits of the CVTs?
The main advantage of a CVT transmission is the unparalleled efficiency it offers. Vehicles that come with CVT transmissions are the most efficient offering economies reaching up to 38MPG on mid-sized sedans. Currently, most hybrids use the CVT to help them achieve optimum fuel economy.
On steep inclines, traditional automatic transmissions will struggle under heavy load; the CVTs, on the other hand, will immediately find their exact ratios and provide power seamlessly without shifting. The seamless shifts are also advantageous when it comes to in-cabin ride experience offering smooth rides with hardly any noticeable shift changes.
What are the Disadvantages of CVTs?
While the CVT offers an unrivaled fuel economy, it comes with a cost that needs consideration. Replacing a CVT transmission costs roughly between $3,000 and $5,000 or higher. The CVTs won’t last nearly as long as the standard automatic transmissions, and it’s not surprising if they fail to run for more than 100K miles or less.
Additionally, when they fail, nine times out of ten they will need replacing and not repair. The main reason being, replacement parts are very expensive and almost impossible to locate, and in the event, they fail, the damage is extensive, repairing is not an option.
Another disadvantage of the CVT is that they fail to withstand the kind of horsepower, manuals or automatic transmissions can hold. It’s due to this reason that CVT systems are not ideal for performance situations.
My family has bought Subaru's with Automatic Transmission for decades as we admired the low cost high reliability of the All Wheel Drive. But if we don't replace the current one with an EV, I am thinking we are better off with a Mazda Dual Clutch transmission
I had a CVT, and it was fine. I see a lot of people ranting about CVTs here and on the web, but I haven't seen anyone who has some credentials saying that CVTs are actually less reliable than conventional automatics, and/or anyone showing any actual rigorous data.
These guys say "CVT transmissions have been shown to improve fuel efficiency and are typically more dependable than typical automatic gearboxes."... these guys say "In general, CVTs are no more or less reliable than traditional automatic transmissions. "
A lot of the people here who say they're unreliable, have never had a failure with a CVT, have never even owned a vehicle with one, and they seem to just repeat what they hear, and I get that same feeling about a lot of the web postings - not based on much. It may be because I am a scientist, but I want more than "people are saying"... especially when my own experience with a CVT showed no issues, none.
I don't disagree with you. There are numerous articles in the Internet and paper that point out the pros and cons, not only of CVT's and automatic transmissions, but of everything in the market. Some list a few pros and cons, and others list several, but as an individual basis in this forum, only those who drive automobiles with CVT's can tell pros and cons. The rest of us can only form opinions about it based on the published articles.
The said, one can visit the automobile-brand forums that have a great number of users. When I drove a 2009 Forester I would get factual information from other Subaru owners at the large Subaru forums. That's where I became aware of the head-gasket, turbo, and issues. I also did the same in "my Toyota" and other Toyota forums and leaned the over-use of oil, and other issues relating to some Toyota models.
Nowadays the "recall" notices at mailed to one's home
The CVT is no less expensive than a 9 speed automatic transmission. Level 2 refers to advanced features like paddle shifters.
The cheapest transmission is a 5 speed automatic transmission, but the automaker has to be concerned with fuel economy to meet EPA requirements.
I think it is a well known fact easily confirmed that replacing a CVT is more expensive than replacing other transmissions, That doesn't mean they are more or less reliable, but if they must be replaced it is more expensive.
This article is from AAMCO, a transmission repair place, and is unlikely to be biased.
My family has bought Subaru's with Automatic Transmission for decades as we admired the low cost high reliability of the All Wheel Drive. But if we don't replace the current one with an EV, I am thinking we are better off with a Mazda Dual Clutch transmission
Maybe I have always been lucky, but I never had to replace any transmission in any of the trucks and cars I have owned since I started driving in the early 1960's. Started driving "manual" and automatic until recently, but the three automobiles my wife and I have are "automatics." Corolla, RAV4 V6, Silverado. The Corolla has 3 forward speeds/overdrive, but it is peppy enough to spin the front wheels if I push it, and it goes a long way with 13.5 gallons of gasoline. Odometer shows somewhere around 65,000 miles. The RAV4 shows 75,000 miles, and the Silverado shows 216,000 miles.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover
I had a CVT, and it was fine. ... It may be because I am a scientist, but I want more than "people are saying"... especially when my own experience with a CVT showed no issues, none.
Anecdote information aside... (Speaking as a mechanical engineer..I've driven hundreds of CVT's hundreds of thousand miles)
1) that does not mean they are reliable.
2) that does not mean I would buy one
3) that certainly doesn't mean it like them.
They do not suit my driving style or needs.
They are ok in my snowmobile and SE farm equipment.
They are not a mechanical wonder or ultimate solution. They are only one of thousands of solutions to meet niche needs.
Anecdote information aside... (Speaking as a mechanical engineer..I've driven hundreds of CVT's hundreds of thousand miles)
1) that does not mean they are reliable.
2) that does not mean I would buy one
3) that certainly doesn't mean it like them.
They do not suit my driving style or needs.
They are ok in my snowmobile and SE farm equipment.
They are not a mechanical wonder or ultimate solution. They are only one of thousands of solutions to meet niche needs.
I don't mind the CVT of my UTV (Yamaha Rhino), but would prefer an automatic transmission like the ones used in the Honda's UTV's several years ago, or a semi-automatic transmission like the ones where you let-off the gas and then shift (no clutch). For snowmobiles CVT's work quite well. CVT's are used in ATV's too, but like the one on my UTV they need maintenance (belt, friction plates), unlike the semi-automatic transmissions used in older ATV's and UTV's.
As for CTV use in automobiles: if I were to purchase a vehicle, regardless of brand, I would visit the automobile-user forums and read the complains and recalls. I would also read the published reports relating to mechanical and other problems with the vehicle brand and model. There are a lot of reports from customers about malfunctioning CVTs. Some automobile manufacturers have extended the warranty of these transmissions for obvious reasons.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,690 posts, read 57,994,855 times
Reputation: 46171
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover
I had a CVT, and it was fine. ... It may be because I am a scientist, but I want more than "people are saying"... especially when my own experience with a CVT showed no issues, none.
Anecdote information aside... (Speaking as a mechanical engineer..I've driven hundreds of CVT's hundreds of thousand miles)
1) that does not mean they are reliable.
2) that does not mean I would buy one
3) that certainly doesn't mean it like them.
They do not suit my driving style or needs.
They are ok in my snowmobile and certain farm equipment.
They are not a mechanical wonder or ultimate solution. They are only one of thousands of solutions to meet niche needs.
Interestingly, this Honda Civic owned by a medical courier has put > 236,000 miles on the odometer in about a year. It still has the original CVT in it and it's doing fine. Doesn't look like they even changed the fluid in it over all those miles. I wonder if the owner starts ranting about CVTs when anyone asks them about it, like the experts on CD Forum (and Scotty Kilmer, to be fair!)?
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,690 posts, read 57,994,855 times
Reputation: 46171
That's Interesting?
248,740 miles within a yr has to be highway miles... How hard are those?
A Honda Civic weighs how much?
I trust this service is pretty EZ to obtain, but for most of us, a Honda Civic won't cut it for our driving demands.
Most people able to survive with a Civic, could even mange to get by with an EV
248,740 miles / yr in an EV ....
Some applications are the perfect fit for SOME drivers.
There are LOTS of drivers with different needs and vehicle demands.
There are Honda CR-Vs with over 200k miles with CVTs that do meet the demands of many suburban drivers (kids, people, groceries, Target, Home Depot). Hard 200k miles, not easy highway miles.
(And I'm talking about the non-hybrid CR-Vs because the Hybrid has a different type of transmission)
Anecdotal but have a friend who bought a used Corolla with 100K miles and CVT transmission. I believe he changed the fluid once after her bought it and currently has around 140K miles with no issues.
Another friend bought a Mistu Outlander with 100K miles and hasn't done anything to the CVT transmission and now has over 200 K miles. His miles are hard as he has a lot of stop and go. Actually is tired of the car but it won't die.
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