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But when over 60% of Corvette buyers (who are about as manual-oriented as it gets, to go along with their beards and baseball hats) don't opt for the manual, then there is clearly not enough interest.
Which would indicate that approximatley 40% do?
That IS a significant enough number they'd be foolish to ignore... I can see where it should obviously mean a smaller production off the line, but not complete abandonment.
Personally, I drive cheap, low-end cars, but I want a manual for the same reason I want leather seats. It has nothing whatsoever to do with practicality, it's all about maximizing my driving experience.
01-03-2015, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMeFred
Which would indicate that approximatley 40% do?
That IS a significant enough number they'd be foolish to ignore... I can see where it should obviously mean a smaller production off the line, but not complete abandonment.
Personally, I drive cheap, low-end cars, but I want a manual for the same reason I want leather seats. It has nothing whatsoever to do with practicality, it's all about maximizing my driving experience.
That's 40% of very early adopters - literally a couple hundred people.
The long term trend is what matters.
If companies see money to be made in it, they'll offer manual. If a minority of people want it and most of those people will still buy the car even without a manual, then companies won't put in the effort. The evidence clearly shows that for some companies, offering a manual doesn't increase sales enough to justify the extra development and manufacturing expense.
They kept making manual transmissions to this point because there was A. a market and demand for them and B. early automatic transmissions were horribly inefficient. Nowadays demand for manuals has dropped, automatics are more efficient, and there are two new types of transmissions that are also competing for mindshare, the CVT and the DCT. However, there's always going to be a minimal and specialty requirement for a manual transmission, particularly in heavy equipment and other areas where you just have to have a manually actuated clutch.
But when it comes to "regular" cars, and even performance cars, automatics, CVTs, and DCTs shift faster, are more efficient, and hold up better, and most have a manual mode that shifts faster than any lever+pedal setup. Manual transmission "advantages" translate to them being cheap and easy to rebuild by hand.
It was a fun topic 6-7 years ago when started, IMO. Still fun now, as the tide continues to turn. I'm assuming the long-term product planning for the vast bulk of automakers does "not" include too many stick shifts beyond, I'm guessing, model year 2025. Agreed with everything in the above...but still...
Ferrari was not the first to use F1 transmissions in passengers cars, "I don't think," but they've sure gone there with gusto since. Everything I've read suggest they've got it totally right since about the time this thread started to current. Technologies refine, over time.
Reading up on "dual clutch" systems, I see why it probably works well. I'm "afraid" to test drive an Audi R8, newer version, because I'd probably really like it a lot.
To that end, my favorite Euro cars are now mostly paddle shift only. A few have sticks as options, but that's lingering/legacy. My buddy's 540i BMW from the early 2000s had a system that was "good" (one of the few I've driven), but that's old news compared to the new stuff.
THAT SAID, I strongly suspect a group of us now in our 40s-50s...presumably, prime age for buying expensive toys...learned to drive on sticks. Thus, there remains a bit of demand. Porsche purists were out with pitchforks when the 2014 991-series GT3s were NOT available with sticks: I totally understand, and it irritated me as well as a potential buyer. My Turbo from a few years ago has a six speed and I like that a lot, logic be damned.
Won't be driving flappy paddles cars until forced. That day will come, probably soon as my next car, however. Ah well. The next wave of us, maybe 10 years from now, won't care as much. And so it goes. Tail end of the marketing (adoption) curve, as they say!
Stick shifts are stupid and unnecessary!
I was a Truck Driver in the Army and civilian world. About 99% of all military vehicles in the US are automatic. I never had to waste my time driving a stick. Besides, try driving through Iraq and having to shift gears, while, at the same time, you have to concentrate on looking out for the enemy, IEDs, Snipers, the vehicles in front of you and other things. On top of that, you're also being shot at by the enemy. So why give yourself something like a stick shift to make things more difficult? That makes no sense to me at all!
In the civilian world, I also drove an automatic transmission tractor trailer. I refuse to drive a stick shift ever again! I hate them that much!
I don't even know why they are still making stick shifts at all now. They've had the technology to make automatic transmissions since the early 1950s. They are slowly but surely phasing stick shift out of existence! That's good news for me. GM, for example, only makes a few models of new cars that have the option of stick shift. Most GM and other American cars only come with automatic or sometimes automated. A few come with an "aoto-stick" option. In those, you flick a switch and choose whether you want to drive it as an automatic or stick.
Most people today (about 80%) of people 19 years old and under, in the US, don't even know how to drive a stick shift anyway! Most of them don't even want to learn how either! What's the point? It's hard to learn and they are starting to get rid of them anyway.
I am willing to bet that within the next ten years or so, they won't even be making them anymore at all! The only places you'll see them is where they belong: In the junk yard or the natural History museum!
As for stick shifts getting better gas mileage, that may be true in most, but not all cars today. But, with the new technology, automatic transmissions are getting much better mileage now. Some of them get better mileage than the same vehicle in a stick shift model.
Pretty soon, all automatic vehicles will get much better mileage than any stick shift ever made.
I've done some research and found that, pretty soon, several things in this world are going to disappear, just like pay phones, one of them is the clutch pedal (and gear shifter ) in cars!
It also won't be long before everything we see in cars now will be gone to. This includes: The gas pedal, brakes, steering wheel, etc.! They will all be like the new Google car. In this, you type your destination into a computer, sit back and enjoy the ride. The car does all the work! It doesn't even have a steering wheel, gas pedal or anything else! The car doesn't need it.
Another idea they've come up with years ago is a car with an engine similar in concept to a jet plane. IDK how exactly it would work, but, jets and airplanes don't use a transmission like the use in a car (they probably don't have any kind of transmission at all). In other words, you cannot manually shift an airplane.
Twenty years or so from now, our kids and grandkids will be laughing at us when they go to an antique car show and look at a car from 2014. They will probably laugh and say, "Mom, what are those things I see inside this car?"
She will have to explain, "This was called a gear shifter, gas pedal, brakes and a steering wheel." Then, under the hood, she will point out, "This is an engine that ran on something called gasoline."
She'll also have to explain what the tires are for, because, by then, cars will be flying! They are already testing flying cars! Better yet, we may just perfect teleportation, like they use in Sifi movies.
Mark my word, stick shifts WILL be gone forever soon!
I refuse to drive a stick shift ever again! I hate them that much!
I don't even know why they are still making stick shifts at all now. They've had the technology to make automatic transmissions since the early 1950s. They are slowly but surely phasing stick shift out of existence! That's good news for me. GM, for example, only makes a few models of new cars that have the option of stick shift. Most GM and other American cars only come with automatic or sometimes automated. A few come with an "aoto-stick" option. In those, you flick a switch and choose whether you want to drive it as an automatic or stick.
Most people today (about 80%) of people 19 years old and under, in the US, don't even know how to drive a stick shift anyway! Most of them don't even want to learn how either! What's the point? It's hard to learn and they are starting to get rid of them anyway.
I am willing to bet that within the next ten years or so, they won't even be making them anymore at all! The only places you'll see them is where they belong: In the junk yard or the natural History museum!
As for stick shifts getting better gas mileage, that may be true in most, but not all cars today. But, with the new technology, automatic transmissions are getting much better mileage now. Some of them get better mileage than the same vehicle in a stick shift model.
Pretty soon, all automatic vehicles will get much better mileage than any stick shift ever made.
I've done some research and found that, pretty soon, several things in this world are going to disappear, just like pay phones, one of them is the clutch pedal (and gear shifter ) in cars!
It also won't be long before everything we see in cars now will be gone to. This includes: The gas pedal, brakes, steering wheel, etc.! They will all be like the new Google car. In this, you type your destination into a computer, sit back and enjoy the ride. The car does all the work! It doesn't even have a steering wheel, gas pedal or anything else! The car doesn't need it.
Another idea they've come up with years ago is a car with an engine similar in concept to a jet plane. IDK how exactly it would work, but, jets and airplanes don't use a transmission like the use in a car (they probably don't have any kind of transmission at all). In other words, you cannot manually shift an airplane.
Twenty years or so from now, our kids and grandkids will be laughing at us when they go to an antique car show and look at a car from 2014. They will probably laugh and say, "Mom, what are those things I see inside this car?"
She will have to explain, "This was called a gear shifter, gas pedal, brakes and a steering wheel." Then, under the hood, she will point out, "This is an engine that ran on something called gasoline."
She'll also have to explain what the tires are for, because, by then, cars will be flying! They are already testing flying cars! Better yet, we may just perfect teleportation, like they use in Sifi movies. Mark my word, stick shifts WILL be gone forever soon!
Auto's suck to drive. Even the dual clutch ones, they are boring.
I've never complained about my F150s being boring to drive or the 4R70W trans being a pile of junk, so I'll blame tthe driver (i.e. you) for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
...Except one. They are no longer user serviceable, at all. In the past, if you upped the horsepower on your car, you could drop the clutch and replace it with a stronger one. Now, if it isn't a factory option, you're stuck.
Even then, there aren't exactly a ton of semi-recent manual trans offerings that were all that durable, either, short of the heavy duty trucks with those notchy shifts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF
That's 40% of very early adopters - literally a couple hundred people.
The long term trend is what matters.
If companies see money to be made in it, they'll offer manual. If a minority of people want it and most of those people will still buy the car even without a manual, then companies won't put in the effort. The evidence clearly shows that for some companies, offering a manual doesn't increase sales enough to justify the extra development and manufacturing expense.
Right. Until those same folks crying about manual trans going away-for the most part--start putting their money where their mouth is and footing the bill themselves, don't expect automakers to start rengineering their vehicles to accept manual transmissions and spending the cash to get them EPA certified when auto transmissions do the job just fine. Evidently, automakers are still being confused for "enthusiasts" rather than "money makers".
I honestly don't care if manuals do disappear in the future, as I've already purchased what took me 7 years to find.. a specific 6-speed performance car I have zero desire to replace with anything else for at least the next 3-4 decades, unless a McLaren F1 comes along for an affordable price (lol), which was also only sold as a manual.
I have no problem with a daily driver being an auto, but my garage queen performance car that gets ~2k miles per year will last me till I'm old and gray.
I honestly don't care if manuals do disappear in the future, as I've already purchased what took me 7 years to find.. a specific 6-speed performance car I have zero desire to replace with anything else for at least the next 3-4 decades, unless a McLaren F1 comes along for an affordable price (lol), which was also only sold as a manual.
I have no problem with a daily driver being an auto, but my garage queen performance car that gets ~2k miles per year will last me till I'm old and gray.
Thanks for not caring about the rest of us who do prefer to drive a stick.
I'll put my stick in the same category as when I had my Jeep YJ's and TJ's. "You wouldn't just understand".
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