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Old 09-11-2013, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
54,498 posts, read 33,882,889 times
Reputation: 91679

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It's been 12 years since the September 11th, 2001 attacks that changed everything about aviation and commercial air travel. We also know that flight crews (Captains and First Officers and possibly flight attendats) are allowed to carry firearms with them on flights, with the proper training on using deadly force if necessary.

The TSA has done a great job keeping those with sinister intentions off aircraft, but there's always a chance somebody may get through the safe guards and end up trying to do the unthinkable. If you were a commercial airline pilot, what would be your preferred weapon of defense? Remember, I'm not talking about just firearms, but other weapons, like Tasers, Pepper spray, or others.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
54,498 posts, read 33,882,889 times
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I am a strong proponent of the Second Amendment and using a firearm to defend myself when the need arises, but the last thing I would want to do is fire a weapon inside a pressurized cabin and puncture the wall of the cabin and cause catastrophic depressurization at cruise altitudes. Ammunition manufacturers do make rounds for that purpose, that will stop an intruder, yet will not cause any serious damage to the cabin and the fuselage, so that would be my choice - I've had plenty of experience in firearms, but thankfully I've never had to use one in self-defense, and if I were a commercial pilot, I would definitely take training in the proper use of deadly force on an aircraft.

The flight deck door is not always a safe barrier, a hijacker can still hold flight attendants and passengers hostage and threaten them, so under such circumstances, action will be required, and I will take such action to defend the aircraft I'm flying, my flight crew, and the passengers.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:43 PM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
2,458 posts, read 4,207,368 times
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Quote:
Pepper spray



In a confined space like a cockpit, you may as well spray it on yourself...
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
6,957 posts, read 22,325,306 times
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I'd favor a multiple taser unit installed just behind the pilots seats in the area just inside the cabin door. Step in, threaten, switch on the control yoke, ZAP! (although I think there might be a few unintentional triggerings if the switch was added to the control yoke.

Not too sure about guns and the potential to damage something flight critical. Not to mention, having to get the gun out of it's position, turn and fire while strapped in.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:22 PM
 
17,637 posts, read 17,730,526 times
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TSA is a joke. It's the passengers that have been stopping attacks on planes. 9/11 taught people to fight back instead of sitting quietly and obeying the terrorist. If I'm on a plane being hijacked, I'll use anything available to fight back and kill the terrorist. Ink pen, seat tray, or some moves I was taught. I'll be like the black knight in Monty Python, I'll fight with my teeth if I have to.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,167 posts, read 19,768,059 times
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Not a weapon, but a method of defense: a second cockpit door. There was a brief thread on this not too long ago. Basically a second door is installed between the lavatory and the passenger cabin. When a crew member needs to use the lav, the second door is secured shut and the crew can safely use the lav. Can also be used to deliver meals/snacks to the crew.

Since I'm a pilot, I won't express my opinion on how effective I think any particular weapon would be.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:26 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,167 posts, read 19,768,059 times
Reputation: 25713
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
TSA is a joke. It's the passengers that have been stopping attacks on planes. 9/11 taught people to fight back instead of sitting quietly and obeying the terrorist. If I'm on a plane being hijacked, I'll use anything available to fight back and kill the terrorist. Ink pen, seat tray, or some moves I was taught. I'll be like the black knight in Monty Python, I'll fight with my teeth if I have to.
Thank you!
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
54,498 posts, read 33,882,889 times
Reputation: 91679
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMenscha View Post
I'd favor a multiple taser unit installed just behind the pilots seats in the area just inside the cabin door. Step in, threaten, switch on the control yoke, ZAP! (although I think there might be a few unintentional triggerings if the switch was added to the control yoke.

Not too sure about guns and the potential to damage something flight critical. Not to mention, having to get the gun out of it's position, turn and fire while strapped in.
Tasers are good also, but I'm not sure about having them behind the pilot seats. You want to make sure your Taser hits your intended target.

Good training in the use of firearms on a flight is important, it reduces or eliminates the chance of damaging equipment in the flight deck and making sure you hit your intended target.

If I were to choose a firearm, it would be my own Colt 1911 .45 ACP, or one of my Magnum revolvers (.357 or .44), but with the ammo sky marshals carried in their weapons when they were on commercial airliners back in the 1970s. A company called Glasser makes such ammunition.


Glaser Safety Slug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Magnum Mike; 09-11-2013 at 04:11 PM..
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Limbo
6,512 posts, read 7,558,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Not a weapon, but a method of defense: a second cockpit door. There was a brief thread on this not too long ago. Basically a second door is installed between the lavatory and the passenger cabin. When a crew member needs to use the lav, the second door is secured shut and the crew can safely use the lav. Can also be used to deliver meals/snacks to the crew.

Since I'm a pilot, I won't express my opinion on how effective I think any particular weapon would be.
Like some sort of air-lock system?

Many airliners, especially the 767, are configured with a lav directly behind the flight deck. I often see conflict here between passengers and crew in regards to the pilots needing to use the restroom, food service, etc.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:57 PM
 
Location: The hills of western Washington
251 posts, read 523,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike View Post
I am a strong proponent of the Second Amendment and using a firearm to defend myself when the need arises, but the last thing I would want to do is fire a weapon inside a pressurized cabin and puncture the wall of the cabin and cause catastrophic depressurization at cruise altitudes.

No worries, shooting through the aircraft's skin won't cause a catastrophic decompression. Airliners are typically pressurized to under 9 psi, and use an "outflow valve" to control pressurization. The outflow valve is about the size of a desktop computer monitor. In flight, it's never really fully closed, so an opening the size of a bullet hole wouldn't be a big deal.

In 2008, a US Air pilot accidentally shot through the aluminum skin while stowing his gun, and it wasn't a problem. You wouldn't get sucked out through the tiny hole...

While the TSA doesn't like it, the FFDO (Federal Flight Deck Officer deputization) program has been successful in getting pilots armed. A cockpit crew well armed & highly trained to protect the plane is both very common, and should be quite effective if needed.
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