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So I'm giving enlisted personnel a black eye, because historically they haven't had access to pilot training programs? I didn't make the rules.
There has always been limited access programs that create an exception from time to time. The quoted article is such an example. But throughout the history of military aviation, pilots predominantly have been officers.
I have worked with a bunch of pilots that were ex truck drivers. Your statement is just ignorant.
I don't know why ex mil guys get put on a pedestal, they are as a whole just average as compared to someone who worked their way up the civilian route. By far the best stick and rudder folks were actually blue collar guys in a past life who flew night freight to build time.
Come on, I know that. But you and I both know how the industry works. Your former truck driver, with no college degree, flies boxes in a Navajo for 2,000 hours. A degreed Air Force pilot with 2,000 hours in jets. Both apply to Delta. Both receive an interview. The truck driver's semi-literate blue collar roots show through, and the Air Force pilot is exactly what Delta expects a former military officer to be. Who's Delta going to hire?
In reality, in today's market, the truck driver will be welcomed by the regionals with open arms. But he will never have the social acumen to make it through a major airlines screening process. And he'll never have the self-reflection to understand why he's rejected. Instead, he'll just direct his discontent towards military pilots.
Come on, I know that. But you and I both know how the industry works. Your former truck driver, with no college degree, flies boxes in a Navajo for 2,000 hours. A degreed Air Force pilot with 2,000 hours in jets. Both apply to Delta. Both receive an interview. The truck driver's semi-literate blue collar roots show through, and the Air Force pilot is exactly what Delta expects a former military officer to be. Who's Delta going to hire?
In reality, in today's market, the truck driver will be welcomed by the regionals with open arms. But he will never have the social acumen to make it through a major airlines screening process. And he'll never have the self-reflection to understand why he's rejected. Instead, he'll just direct his discontent towards military pilots.
I personally know of at least 3 former truck drivers at the major I work for. You're stereotyping badly. Airlines don't really care about what you did prior to your flight time as long as it didn't involve being in jail. There are many, many, second career types in the major cockpits. I've worked with former nurses, truck drivers, insurance salesmen , rampers, even my check airman other day was a plumber til he was 35.
So I'm giving enlisted personnel a black eye, because historically they haven't had access to pilot training programs? I didn't make the rules.
There has always been limited access programs that create an exception from time to time. The quoted article is such an example. But throughout the history of military aviation, pilots predominantly have been officers.
You posted " there's a reason the military has excluded enlisted from pilot training ". You are wrong. The Army has trained thousands of enlisted to be pilots in the Warrant Officer Flight Training Program. Yes, they are given their Warrant after completing the program, but they came from the enlisted ranks when they started. These pilots were the backbone of Army Aviation in the Vietnam War and have continued to this day to be the point of the spear. I also know that years ago in the late 50s/early 60's the Air Force had a Cadet program that did basically the same thing. After graduating, the Cadets were commissioned. Currently, the Air Force has enlisted pilots flying their Global Hawk drone and is seeking more ways to utilize enlisted pilots due to the current shortage of Officers who are pilots.
Come on, I know that. But you and I both know how the industry works. Your former truck driver, with no college degree, flies boxes in a Navajo for 2,000 hours. A degreed Air Force pilot with 2,000 hours in jets. Both apply to Delta. Both receive an interview. The truck driver's semi-literate blue collar roots show through, and the Air Force pilot is exactly what Delta expects a former military officer to be. Who's Delta going to hire?
In reality, in today's market, the truck driver will be welcomed by the regionals with open arms. But he will never have the social acumen to make it through a major airlines screening process. And he'll never have the self-reflection to understand why he's rejected. Instead, he'll just direct his discontent towards military pilots.
You seem to have a lot of pre-conceived notions about truck drivers is what I'm gathering here. That's nice. In reality there is a wide range of ability and intelligence among drivers in the trucking industry. I know this all too well since I myself drive for a living. Many drivers would no doubt make excellent aviators, but that is not what happens in reality. Trucking pays the bills equally as well as most piloting jobs and the barriers to entry are not nearly as high. (Some would argue they are too low already, but with the trucking industry facing the same labor shortages as the airlines, I won't hold my breath waiting for that to change.)
Come on, I know that. But you and I both know how the industry works. Your former truck driver, with no college degree, flies boxes in a Navajo for 2,000 hours. A degreed Air Force pilot with 2,000 hours in jets. Both apply to Delta. Both receive an interview. The truck driver's semi-literate blue collar roots show through, and the Air Force pilot is exactly what Delta expects a former military officer to be. Who's Delta going to hire?
That used to be true, especially at DAL. Not the case now and hasn't been for decades.
Quote:
In reality, in today's market, the truck driver will be welcomed by the regionals with open arms. But he will never have the social acumen to make it through a major airlines screening process.
LOL... In today's market, very little in the way of social acumen is needed to get past the interview board, even at a major.
The sole reason that the majors preferred military folks, and hired them with relatively low total time (compared to their civilian counterparts) was because they are a known quantity.
It had little to do with their social skills.
Quote:
And he'll never have the self-reflection to understand why he's rejected. Instead, he'll just direct his discontent towards military pilots.
In my 32 years as a pilot, the only discontent I've witnessed or felt was when a guy with a military background expressed the opinion that civilian folks, ironically, didn't belong at a civilian airline.
It used to be more prevalent, but I still run into that attitude once in a while. I just traded out of a good trip with a relatively new (AF heavy) guy with that attitude. He's been here less than a year and already has a less than stellar rep as a "check FO" at my domicile. I flew a trip with him last Dec and his "social acumen" made for a loooooong 3 days.
Fortunately, he is in the minority, which makes guys like him stand out in a group of mostly great people to work with.
Overall, like any large group of people, 10% are jerks from any background.
My favorite folks to fly with come from all backgrounds. So do my least favorite.
Last edited by Tripower455; 08-18-2018 at 12:11 PM..
A commonality between airline pilots and truck drivers - their working conditions or benefits have been eroded over the years.
I can't speak for pilots but a trucker, age 69 retiring, told me when I asked about his trucking career........." just like your farming career, the best times were in the 1970's "
Putting support personnel through pilot training sounds like a bad idea. Kind of like offering to put a hospital janitor through medical school. There's a reason why the military excludes enlisted from pilot training. This isn't truck driving.
I don't disagree. If an enlisted person wants to become a pilot then they are more than welcome to apply for a commission at an officer school.
The issue is the military has a shortage of pilots as well.
Quote:
The military’s fighter pilot shortfall is reaching alarming proportions — and a new report from the Government Accountability Office shows just how bad the problem has become.
The Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps are each short about a 25 percent of the fighter pilots they need in crucial areas, according to the GAO report released Wednesday, titled “DOD Needs to Reevaluate Fighter Pilot Workforce Requirements.”
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