How close does Cleveland compare with Baltimore? (Mount Vernon: apartments, condos)

[scarecrow-]

I'm wondering what the most similar cities are to baltimore and the ones that I could think of were Philly and Cleveland. What are your thoughts? If you had to choose a mirror image city in the USA. which one comes closest

[pokeable]

Baltimore is closer to Cleveland or Detroit than Philly.

Lived in downtown Detroit for two years, downtown Cleveland for one year. Baltimore, like both of those places, have pockets of nightlife in close proximity to not-so-nice places. All three have violent crime problems, as well as institutionalized urban blight. All three have had sporadic revitalization projects. All three have expensive suburbs with good schools.

[ktaadin]

The climate is significantly different, but IMO Cleveland is perhaps the most Baltimore-like of any other city in the US. Points of comparison:

-similar in size metro areas (although Cleveland's city is smaller-if you add in Akron they're very close).
-similar economy, past and present (past includes alot of heavy industry that has declined, present includes education, medicine, and some limited financial services and a smattering of remaining industry)
-both are heavily integrated with their waterfront
-both have noted orchestras (although Cleveland's is more famous)
-both have a top-ranked national hospital (Cleveland clinic & Johns Hopkins)
-both are, at least from the feeling I get, a little more blue-collar, with more of a small city than big city feel on the street
-both have problems battling significant areas of blight, abandoned properties, and high crime, worse as a percentage than most other US cities.

[P47P47]

The biggest difference I could find between Baltimore and Cleveland is that Cleveland is located on a body of fresh water and Baltimore is located on a body of brackish water. Seemed quite similar otherwise, except that Cleveland had several drawbridges of a design that I haven't seen around Baltimore.

[Woodlands]

Originally Posted by P47P47

The biggest difference I could find between Baltimore and Cleveland is that Cleveland is located on a body of fresh water and Baltimore is located on a body of brackish water. Seemed quite similar otherwise, except that Cleveland had several drawbridges of a design that I haven't seen around Baltimore.

Along those same lines.. it seems like though both are waterfront cities with ports.. Baltimore because of its access to the Atlantic and being on a large body of water feels more like a "seaport city" like Norfolk, Boston, Charleston-SC and NYC. While Cleveland feels more like a "riverboat city" like Memphis, St. Louis, Philadelphia, and New Orleans..because of the way it hugs the Cuyahoga River. (Jones Falls is nowhere near the size of that)..Though the argument could be made that Baltimore is a riverboat town too because of our distance from the Atlantic....

You could walk into a Bar in Baltimore down by the water and hear a Robert Shaw (Captain from Jaws) talking about the Chesap[eake and some Tom Sawyer type Captain musing about the Mighty Missip (I know it doesnt flow through CLE)

[Krakatowa2105]

Both have lots of abandoned houses. The only difference is that Baltimore doesn't tear most of them down, so there's still hope of reviving them.

[pwduvall]

Cleveland, probably because it in the Midwest, is set up much more like a Midwest City. It has broader streets and a downtown that has bigger and more impressive buildings than Baltimore's. From there Cleveland tends to step down very quickly to small lot semi-suburban housing that I would say is most comparable to Northeast Baltimore. Baltimore tends to step down in density gradually over a distance of miles. Baltimore's streets seem to have a lot more auto and pedestrian traffic.

While Baltimore's neighborhoods with vacancy problems are filled with empty and forsaken rowhouses, Cleveland's are filled with vacant lots. Obviously, the rotting carcass of a row house is a lot scarier than a vacant lot. While the face of vacancy in Cleveland is a lot less scarey, Cleveland has lost 56% of its population since 1950 while Baltimore has lost 35%. And Cleveland is still losing population while Baltimore is holding its own. Baltimore is also less industrial and its population has better educational attainment. Per capita income in Baltimore is 44% higher than in Cleveland's. Baltimore has a shockingly high murder rate. The rates of other kinds of crime are more similar.

While Philly is much larger and further along towards revitalization than Baltimore, when you go out in the neighborhoods, the city looks and feels more like Baltimore than Cleveland. Face it, Baltimore and Philadelphia are both rowhouse cities; and that drives a lot of other physical similarities. Baltimore and Philly are also relatively similar on a lot of other demographic indicators. The differences between Baltimore and Cleveland are much more striking.

Finally, I was raked over the coals on another blog for saying that Baltimore was in any way like a Rustbelt city. Cleveland is definitely a Rustbelt city.

[Tallybalt]

Having spent quite a lot of time in both Cleveland and Philadelphia, Baltimore is much closer to Philadelphia in spirit, personality and form than Cleveland. What Baltimore has in common with Cleveland is approximate city size.

People tend to forget that Baltimore is an old city. Walk around downtown on foot, from the Inner Harbor to Mount Vernon and over to West Baltimore towards Union Square or East Baltimore along Baltimore Avenue, and Fell's Point and Federal Hill and it's astonishing how much of pre-Civil War and Civil War era Baltimore remains. The physical form of Baltimore as a higher density rowhouse city is sharply different from Cleveland but similar to Philadelphia. Whenever I am in Philadelphia I always think it's just like Baltimore except on a much bigger scale and because the scale is bigger it has a bigger and more lively downtown, larger arts scene and all the benefits that come from a larger city, but when you compare neighborhoods to neighborhoods, architecture and individual aspects of the city, the two are quite similar. I never think that when I'm in Cleveland.

Interestingly so, the one midwest city Baltimore may have much in common with is St. Louis. Both are cities isolated from surrounding counties and both cities were places where ground rents dominated.

[SirGreenDown]

I've actually said this before.. A lot of parallels..

I'd say the vibe in Baltimore definitely reminds me of Cleveland. Cleveland has a Midwest/east coast-ish vibe to it, just like Baltimore, they both feel like hard working city's. Both economy's are heavily dependent upon healthcare, John Hopkins/Cleveland Clinic. Die hard football fans for what some would consider to be underdog teams Raves/Browns (although, Ravens (not even mentioning the Superbowl win > Browns). Both have a 'Little Italy', though I've never experienced it in either city. I've actually used the public transportation (RTA) in Cleveland countless times, "the rapid" is very handy when getting from East Cleveland (which no one should ever go to) to downtown Cleveland, they also have a little street car type system to get to surrounding suburbs (Shaker heights, Willoughby etc), the bus system in Cleveland is quite expansive too. I've actually never used the public transportation in Baltimore (I don't think I'd ever want to for multiple reasons), but i'm sure they're comparable. Crime, just like Baltimore, homicides specifically can happen just about anywhere in Cleveland, although the crime rate in Baltimore may even be a bit higher than Cleveland's (correct me if i'm wrong). Another interesting note, though Baltimore is twice as big population wise, I don't "feel" much of a difference when being in either city.

As far as downtown's go, I find Cleveland to feel like a more buzzing place, Public square/Tower city (A beautiful piece of architecture)/"The flats"/Playhouse square (though I'm not sure if that's considered to be apart of DT Cleveland, its right down Euclid) all the surrounding areas > DT Baltimore. When I go to downtown Baltimore its like..the waterfront..and then what? Cheesecake factory? They both have "star attractions" though I would give the slight edge to Cleveland.. The Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame/Science Center > Baltimore Aquarium.

Baltimore = Cleveland w/ Row homes,better architecture and overall more interesting neighborhoods throughout the city.

[Clyde Pharmer]

My brother lives in the Cleveland area now, so I've visited it off and on. Philly feels like it's 5 to 10 years ahead of Baltimore as far as revitalization, but much of it, especially in South Philly is so old and compact. Baltimore feels like it's 5 to 10 years ahead of Cleveland. Cleveland's having some major waterfront revitalization in downtown and building around University area similar to around Johns Hopkins medical area.

All 3 have some really gritty areas (east Cleveland, North Philly, West and East Baltimore), some really nice up and coming hipster areas, with Philly having the best downtown area, Center City. Cleveland's downtown area was the most lacking when I visited it, but I've read some articles where it's starting to attract more downtown residents with more apartments and condos being built.