Balti MORE or Balti LESS (Baltimore, Overlea: rental, how much, new home)

[Woodlands]

I am puzzled.. everytime a open a newspaper that references the City's population some say it up ( Baltimore City Officials) some say its down (Census Bureau). Now, I know that NO City likes to say that their population is going down for fear that they will lose businesses/not attract any new businesses and appear less attractive to potential residents. If I have researched correctly the City has lost 300K plus since 1950s? If that many residents lived in the City today.. would it be more livable today or more congested?

Secondly, WHO is leaving the City and who is moving to the City?Are many lower income residents leaving the City in search of better housing and employment opportunities and more upper income residents moving in to be close to work and downtown amenities? If this is occurring it would appear that the increase in higher income residents would off set the overall loss in population in terms of the City would recieve more income tax revenue or atleast off set the loss? If the homes being vacated are not sold to new homeowners and become vacant, I can see that being a potential issue, but if the homes that are being vacated are rental units and are converted back to single family homes by new owners.. there is a net loss in units but the tax value of the property should increase if it becomes a new single family home?

I just wanted to get others take on this, being from a much smaller city than Baltimore, it appears that the City's population has declined substantially, but the City still seems very urban, dense, and populated.

[jonjj]

IN the latest census figures released today, Baltimore is down 2.1% since 2000. Of course, that is an estimate and many times there are flaws in those figures. Interesting, Chicago's is also down 2.1% whereas NYC had a net gain of almost 300,000. I don't put much faith in those figures and will wait to see the official count in 2010.
Generally, most cities are losing families while gaining singles, younger professionals, and older retireees. I think Baltimore probably follows suit with most other cities in this regard.

[barante]

Woodlands raises interesting questions to which there are no real answers, only opinions. The city is still losing population. But it is also attracting increasing numbers high-income/high profile whites who exited for Baltimore County and other counties in earlier decades.
A neighborhood like Roland Park has probably never in its history had as much money as it has today. All the surrounding private schools have long waiting lists.
In the absence of hard figures, I use a different yardstick: How does the city feel? Since I came here a year after the 1968 riots, Baltimore has never felt as good as it does today. One gauge is the return of certain type of retail, including a great improvement in grocery shopping.
As to poor people, one has to recognize why they are here. They are here because all the counties force them to move to Baltimore. They don't provide public or low-cost housing, they don't provide social services. If those counties have achieved a better quality of life, getting rid of the poor and needy are among the reasons.

[Woodlands]

It seems as you ride through Forest Park, Windsor Mill, Ashburton on the NW. Many of these large multi family (rooming homes )are being converted into single family. If the tenant relocates out of the City, and the Census either counted them at their residence or used building permit data to show a duplex was converted to a single family home. If there was a family of three was living in each half of the duplex... now its just one family of three in the renovated single family... thats a 50% drop in population. Take that across a whole neighborhood like Forest Park, Howard Park, Res. Hill, or Overlea where there are large single family homes that have been converted to duplexes or rooming houses and are now being converted back. The numbers could rack up especially if the tenants move out of the City or disappear into other living arrangements where they are not counted. I know this is a over simplistic view but it just seems the City is too fearful of saying "yes" the population has declined, but heres why and/or why it is not necessarily bad.

I have only been here two years and though the City still looks very congested and populated, it feels very livable especially when compared to other large cities of similiar size. You can ride from one side of town to the other on the weekend and not encounter any major traffic jams; most of the stores, restaurants in the city are not jammed packed; and you can still find a parking space every now and then in Fells Point, Downtown and Federal Hill on the weekends... so its not so bad.

[krakenten]

A smaller Baltimore is a good thing.

When I came there in 1974, Baltimore was dreadfully overpopulated-everything involved standing in an endless line, with a interminable wait.

Seattle experienced a great decline in population in the 1970's-there were bumper stickers that said "Will the last person out of Seattle please turn out the lights?"

The result was a much more comfortable place to live.

Every time I visit, I remark on how much less crowded the city is-I sometimes use an on-line web-cam that views the area around the courthouse, and I marvel at the lack of congestion there.

Used to be crazy there at 4:30 to around six, now, it seems quite pleasant.

Someone mentioned that retired people are coming to the city-when my Mother is gone, and my Social Security kicks in, I may join them.

I still love the old gal, with all her faults.

[Woodlands]

I wonder how this will ultimately end up...two powerful issues.. preserved greenspace in an urban center, versus more development in a City that needs the tax base. Someone submitted an Editorial to The Sun that advised Keswick to see an alternative site possibly as part of the Rotunda redevelopment. I would hate to see a project like what Keswick is proposing not happen, but I understand the concerns of the residents of Roland Park. There are probably two dozen or more neighborhoods that would love a project like what Keswick is proposing. On a side note, I hope the Village of Cross Keys finds a buyer to remarket or remake that retail center... its definately a nice attraction to the area and for the residents who live there.....

[oneworld25]

Originally Posted by barante

As to poor people, one has to recognize why they are here. They are here because all the counties force them to move to Baltimore. They don't provide public or low-cost housing, they don't provide social services. If those counties have achieved a better quality of life, getting rid of the poor and needy are among the reasons.

If the city and the region as a whole are to prosper, I think it's important that the city and the surrounding suburbs stop viewing each other as adversaries. For example, I don't think poor people were ever pushed out of the surrounding counties. The reality is that there have always been a large amount of poor people in the city, even during its "glory days" I just think that back it was easier to push things under the rug due to things like housing covenants. Furthermore, many of the surrounding counties do have social services take a look at the Baltimore County Department of Social Services Website (http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Directory/HumanServices/Directory_HumanServices_SocialServices - broken link). I also know that Howard County has recently initiated a Universal Health Care program. Too often the City and the surrounding suburbs view each other as completely separate entities that have nothing with each other. The reality is that the City and the counties are interconnected and we need to realize this.

[barante]

Oneworld -- Both Baltimore County and city officials testified to county residents being pushed into the city at a 1970 hearing of the U.S. Commission on Human Rights. At that time 7-10 county families each week applied for public housing in the city because the county did not have any. Similar testimony about other social services. See links in the race, class and antisemitism thread.

[krakenten]

Public housing?

Please, not that booby-trap again!