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With the exception of the Knicks Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe, the list could begin and end there, if the issue is who turn NBA into one of the preeminent sports franchises. And if you add , Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwan and the Doctor you have players who made teams outside of the Boston/LA nexus making teams, in the West and South, actual rivals of the two perennials.
The league was already developed internationally before Kukoc, Dirk, Ginoblie and Yao came along which is why they "came along" in the first place. And if you want to credit the Team that brought European play up a level worthy of consideration... you are right back where you started, Bird and Magic Dream Team I.
Again within the context of your question the NBA was a done deal by the time they signed their contracts. Think about it, Walton was a 3rd generation Laker big man, trying to follow in none other than Wilt, a Kareem. Robinson was good center in an era packed with great all time greats, Robert Parish, Olajuwon, Malone, Ewing, McAdoo. Artis Gilmore.
As you should, along with Shaq massive players but in a mature league.
Many good points.
I don't think we can just wave our hand at what some of the foreign players did for the NBA's global expansion by saying it was already established.
The NBA's global reach has really exploded over the last 10-15 years.
Basketball is now definitely an international game much like soccer (albeit not to the same degree as soccer), which it wasn't 30 years ago. Someone did a thread asking who was the 2nd best US-born white player (presuming Kevin Love to be #1). No one could come up with a name. Almost all of the top white players were from Europe, Russia, Balkans, etc.
I don't think we can just wave our hand at what some of the foreign players did for the NBA's global expansion by saying it was already established.
Well here's my reasoning by the time that Dirk (1998), Kukoc (1993) and Ginobili (2002) entered the NBA, you already had Vlade Divac (Lakers 1989), Rick Smits (Pacers, 1988) and Kiki Vandeweghe (Denver 1980) playing the league, all though Vandeweghe had been in the U.S. since high school. Which means to me that the NBA was firmly entrenched in Europe way before even their entrance into the league. Why, because they had to be inspired to play pro ball long before they actually played pro-ball, you feel me? Now if you look at all the great Europeans playing the game, most come in after 1992, so don't underestimate the impact of Dream Team I on play in Europe. It was the Dream Teams wholesale massacre that demonstrated the just how far ahead the NBA was compared to the rest of the world. Sure the U.S. Olympic teams had owned the Gold Medal for decades but they weren't nearly as massively dominate as our pros. To me, the Dream Team sealed the deal despite the NBA's international presence began in 1978! By 1984, the NBA was sending four teams to play across Europe. That is why I would argue that the your list was the result, not the beginning.
Well here's my reasoning by the time that Dirk (1998), Kukoc (1993) and Ginobili (2002) entered the NBA, you already had Vlade Divac (Lakers 1989), Rick Smits (Pacers, 1988) and Kiki Vandeweghe (Denver 1980) playing the league, all though Vandeweghe had been in the U.S. since high school. Which means to me that the NBA was firmly entrenched in Europe way before even their entrance into the league. Why, because they had to be inspired to play pro ball long before they actually played pro-ball, you feel me? Now if you look at all the great Europeans playing the game, most come in after 1992, so don't underestimate the impact of Dream Team I on play in Europe. It was the Dream Teams wholesale massacre that demonstrated the just how far ahead the NBA was compared to the rest of the world. Sure the U.S. Olympic teams had owned the Gold Medal for decades but they weren't nearly as massively dominate as our pros. To me, the Dream Team sealed the deal despite the NBA's international presence began in 1978! By 1984, the NBA was sending four teams to play across Europe. That is why I would argue that the your list was the result, not the beginning.
I agree about the dream team, great point.
It's a big world out there, I don't think you can say that Vlade or Smits gained the NBA any ground in a country like China or even in many parts of Europe. In a lot of countries you really need someone from that country to really fire up the base so to speak.
The NBA in the US been treading water since Jordan if you look at Neilsen ratings but revenues and everything else have exploded. That growth had to have come from somewhere...and it did....overseas.
If you do the math it's growing revenues by 5% a year which depending upon which versions of inflation you believe should still leave plenty of room for growth exceeding inflation.
For comparison baseball is up about 4.6% annually over the same period.
I'd suspect that the NBA stagnated a bit here in the NBA due to some image problems and got most of their growth from overseas. The US Nielsen ratings would suggest stagnancy in the US so the growth had to come predominantly from expanding overseas presence.
I'd suspect that the NBA stagnated a bit here in the NBA due to some image problems and got most of their growth from overseas. The US Nielsen ratings would suggest stagnancy in the US so the growth had to come predominantly from expanding overseas presence.
I looked at those numbers as well and you're right about the NBA showing little growth in the U.S. market, I known I stopped following after the Shaq/Kobe dust ups. I was a Lakers fan from the day that Kareem was traded to LA. Shaq left for Miami.
I looked at those numbers as well and you're right about the NBA showing little growth in the U.S. market, I known I stopped following after the Shaq/Kobe dust ups. I was a Lakers fan from the day that Kareem was traded to LA. Shaq left for Miami.
Yeah, I really don't want to get into a peeing contest with fans but the 2 greatest players since Jordan that are near retiring are Kobe and Duncan.
Duncan is shy for lack of a better word and has no commercial appeal.
Kobe had the rape accusation thing.
Neither really was a great poster child for league development.
Yao probably makes more a year in endorsements than both of them combined....STILL.
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