Bygone projects you wish would've materialzied (Birmingham: gated, vs, transportation)

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by steveklein

This line of thinking is what would lead us to using telegraphs in 2000 instead of land lines or cell phones. Or buying cassette tapes in 2015 instead of MP3s/FLAC files. Or going to Blockbuster instead of Netflix. Or... you get the point.

I think that is a poor and specious analogy. But that's par for your course. Show me a city where Uber(MP3s) have COMPLETELY REPLACED cabs (cassettes). Fallacy 1.

Show me how getting in an Uber car and being driven to a location is more advanced then getting into a cab car and being driven to a location. The basic service is the same, the perks of ease of using a credit card or mobile ap are window dressing. Fallacy 2.

Show me where I said we should reject Uber in perpetuity. Fallacy 3.

If you are running a business model that is broken, someone is going to come along and fix it.

Stop right now and go to NYC and explain to them that the cab system is broken, and that you know how to fix it.

Now I know Uber was skirting some rules and those can/do need to be ironed out... but

Ah ha ha. That's funny, that's just a minor little detail to you. I'm surprised you even bothered to mention it.

[steveklein]

fallacy #1: Uber CEO reveals a mind-boggling new statistic - Business Insider

uber is not yet 5 years and is 3x the size of taxi service inthe Bay Area. why don't we revisit this topic in 15 or 20 years and see how taxi companies that don't have mobile apps, automaticpayment, and the ability to rate individual drivers are doing.

fallacy #2: what you call window dressing are absolute game changers. but don't take my word for it... take the word of the consumer dollars that are streaming to uber and away from traditional taxi companies. it's almost like you have never used a taxi or uber before. if you had, you would know the frusturation in calling a cab being told it is 30-45 minutes and then just patiently waiting as opposed to being able to track your car in real time to see where it is. The whole system is much more streamlined and virtually everyone who uses it agrees. the ability to rate drivers is also a game changer and provides incentive for uber's drivers to be fair, friendly, etc.

fallacy #3: you are strawmanning by accusing me of saying you are in favor of keeping uber out when i never said such a thing.


And yes, it is a minor little detail. Dozens of cities around the world have figured out how to make it work.

[bhamguy]

Originally Posted by sleepless in Bham

This is a proposed project from way back...

Montgomery Highway Shoppers Park - Bhamwiki

Wow...I didn't know about this.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by steveklein

fallacy #1: Uber CEO reveals a mind-boggling new statistic - Business Insider

uber is not yet 5 years and is 3x the size of taxi service inthe Bay Area. why don't we revisit this topic in 15 or 20 years and see how taxi companies that don't have mobile apps, automaticpayment, and the ability to rate individual drivers are doing.

Huh, so a "cab" company, that doesn't have to pay the dues other cab companies have to is able to generate more revenue and take over a large market that has lots of potential riders. What a shocker. What I conclude from this is that Birmingham doesn't have the economy or the potential riders that the Bay Area does and isn't ready to see the revenue it gets from the cab companies disappear which is what I've been saying all along.

fallacy #2: what you call window dressing are absolute game changers. but don't take my word for it... take the word of the consumer dollars that are streaming to uber and away from traditional taxi companies. it's almost like you have never used a taxi or uber before. if you had, you would know the frusturation in calling a cab being told it is 30-45 minutes and then just patiently waiting as opposed to being able to track your car in real time to see where it is. The whole system is much more streamlined and virtually everyone who uses it agrees. the ability to rate drivers is also a game changer and provides incentive for uber's drivers to be fair, friendly, etc.

The point is, they've made improvements to riding in a cab and they don't have to pay to operate as cabs. They aren't beaming you down with a transporter. You are the one who likened them to blu-rays vs etch-a-sketches, or whatever it was you said. I was barely paying attention. The times I've used a cab, I've walked right up to the straight and hailed one, and there one was.

fallacy #3: you are strawmanning by accusing me of saying you are in favor of keeping uber out when i never said such a thing.

No, I correctly inferred it an a response to me about fighting to keep using old tech in 2015 while the rest of the world zooms on ahead with their shiny new hotness - as if Birmingham Alabama is the only place that Uber doesn't operate.

[steveklein]

Blah blah blah


You missed the point. Maybe it is time for the industry to evolve. Napster changed the game. Initially they were skirting rules and laws (or allowing users to) and they eventually were sued and the RIAA "won". But who do you know that buys physical CDs? And who changed the game?

The taxi business has gone decades with very little in the way of major improvement. Uber et al. have arrived and aren't going away.

Again I ask why dozens...hundreds... of markets have found a way to make Uber work.It is so obvious you haven't used Uber that it is really pointless to discuss this with you any longer. But we can certainly revisit the topic in another decade or two and see if Uber was a fad or see if it changed the way the industry operates. I'll bet on the latter and will also bet Birmingham is late to the party when it comes to embracing change. Some things never do change, huh?

And what you call a correct inference was an incorrect assumption.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by steveklein

Blah blah blah

Where have I seen that before...oh yeah.

You missed the point. Maybe it is time for the industry to evolve. Napster changed the game. Initially they were skirting rules and laws (or allowing users to) and they eventually were sued and the RIAA "won". But who do you know that buys physical CDs? And who changed the game?

Napster found ways to steal music. ITunes found away to "legalize" the nature of MP3s. Your analogies need work.

The taxi business has gone decades with very little in the way of major improvement. Uber et al. have arrived and aren't going away.

Again I ask why dozens...hundreds... of markets have found a way to make Uber work.

Thousands of markets don't have it. Birmingham Alabama doesn't. That's it. That's all this is about.

It is so obvious you haven't used Uber that it is really pointless to discuss this with you any longer. But we can certainly revisit the topic in another decade or two and see if Uber was a fad or see if it changed the way the industry operates. I'll bet on the latter and will also bet Birmingham is late to the party when it comes to embracing change.

It is pointless to talk to a cheerleader of something who takes it personally when someone else doesn't share the same overzealous love for it. You must be a paid Uber booster. OMG, DID I JUST SAY THAT?

[steveklein]

like i said... let's revisit this in a decade or two and see if uber changed the industry or if the industry is as advanced worldwide as it is in birmingham today. we all know the answer but we have to wait because predicting the obvious isn't good enough for you.

it is inbelieveanle you still dont get it. napster forced a change in the industry. uber is doing the same. while some markets are working on creating iTunes, birmingham and others are ignoring the winds of change to appease compact disc distributors. what a surprise.

[bhamoutlook]

Originally Posted by steveklein

like i said... let's revisit this in a decade or two and see if uber changed the industry or if the industry is as advanced worldwide as it is in birmingham today. we all know the answer but we have to wait because predicting the obvious isn't good enough for you.

it is inbelieveanle you still dont get it. napster forced a change in the industry. uber is doing the same. while some markets are working on creating iTunes, birmingham and others are ignoring the winds of change to appease compact disc distributors. what a surprise.

Well, let's just hope that city leaders figure it out or that the citizens figure it out and vote accordingly. Although, the people in districts like that of Kim Rafferty may not care about something like Uber. That's why the structure of our city is a problem.

Whatever the city may lose in revenue from cab companies, they would gain in increased employment. Uber would bring more ridership. More ridership would mean a need for more drivers. That would mean that there would possibly be more money to be spent in the city. I would expect Uber ridership to more than double what is currently done in cabs. Perhaps even triple.

Also, I think it would increase vibrancy with a means to get between the various districts in the downtown area. When I'm in Atlanta... I barhop. When I'm in Birmingham, I tend to stay where I am or within walking distance. With Uber, I could see pre-dinner beers at Avondale, dinner at Uptown, after dinner drinks at Blue Monkey, and partying all night in Lakeview. Without Uber, forget it.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by steveklein

like i said... let's revisit this in a decade or two and see if uber changed the industry or if the industry is as advanced worldwide as it is in birmingham today. we all know the answer but we have to wait because predicting the obvious isn't good enough for you.

it is inbelieveanle you still dont get it. napster forced a change in the industry. uber is doing the same. while some markets are working on creating iTunes, birmingham and others are ignoring the winds of change to appease compact disc distributors. what a surprise.

Yeah I know, you'll think you "won" every time something good is written about Uber and you think I'll be scouring the interweb of any negative story I can about Uber or Lyft but I won't - because that's never what this was about - it is just another strawman created by you. Uboosters don't care about tax revenue or the liability such a service places on a city. They just want what they want and damn the details. If Birmingham is one day in a position to accept this service than they can revisit it. Right now they say no. They will not have pushed back the clock of porgressiveness or doomed the citizens to another ice age, or whatever kind of melodramatic whine you can cook up.

Sorry.

[steveklein]

Originally Posted by bhamoutlook

Well, let's just hope that city leaders figure it out or that the citizens figure it out and vote accordingly. Although, the people in districts like that of Kim Rafferty may not care about something like Uber. That's why the structure of our city is a problem.

Whatever the city may lose in revenue from cab companies, they would gain in increased employment. Uber would bring more ridership. More ridership would mean a need for more drivers. That would mean that there would possibly be more money to be spent in the city. I would expect Uber ridership to more than double what is currently done in cabs. Perhaps even triple.

Also, I think it would increase vibrancy with a means to get between the various districts in the downtown area. When I'm in Atlanta... I barhop. When I'm in Birmingham, I tend to stay where I am or within walking distance. With Uber, I could see pre-dinner beers at Avondale, dinner at Uptown, after dinner drinks at Blue Monkey, and partying all night in Lakeview. Without Uber, forget it.

Well said.