How is life in Boulder separate from the college scene? (Denver: fit in, new home)
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My wife and I are considering moving to Boulder - she has a good job offer and I'm an urban/transportation planner who is optimistic that I can find something for myself.
Anyway, our main questions are about the social scene and general culture in Boulder, and whether it revolves primarily around the University or if there are other strong communities in the area. I'm in my early 30's, she in her late 20's - we're thinking about starting a family soon, we both like outdoor activities, and we also enjoy going out to laid-back bars and other social activities (we're definitely more relaxed beer/wine bar people, not club people). We're really not into the whole frat-boy/frat-alum scene and do not want to live in a area where that kind of thing is dominant. (Which it seems to be around many University areas, unfortunately)
We currently live in Seattle and love it here, although the 9-month grey season can be frustrating. But we love the variety of neighborhoods, scenes, the walkability, and the fact that many areas have a strong sense of community and cool social hubs - like bars, record stores, etc. I know Boulder is much smaller, but I was wondering if there are areas that would be a good fit for us.
These kinds of comparisons aren't useful usually, but I somehow picture Boulder to be similar to Eugene, Oregon. Is that accurate in any way, or totally off base?
I should add about the job situation - even though we'd be moving in fall, I have some consultant work that I do remotely that could last for up to another year. Also, my wife's offer is very good. So, whille I would definitely need to find something eventually, it wouldn't be a do or die type situation. The main questions we have are less about the economy or job situation, and more about the social, cultural, and neighborhood-y aspects of the city.
Anyway, any thoughts about whether we could find what we're looking for here, plus any recommendations for areas that might suit us well would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!!
James
Last edited by Mike from back east; 06-26-2011 at 12:36 PM..
Reason: Merged 2:1
I think that the various neighborhood qualities that you enjoy in Seattle are severely limited, if not absent ... in Boulder.
For the most part, the scene you describe in other university towns is much the case in Boulder ... CU and it's affiliated businesses dominate the town. The other big employer ... gov't agencies and research facilities, pretty much round out the town. IBM's complex is North of town a little distance, but it again is a dominant aspect of employment in the area.
IMO, you need to visit Boulder at least twice for an extended time before making any decisions ... once in the warmer months to check out all the outdoor activities and the neighborhoods of Boulder ... and then a second time in February or March (in the depths of winter/snow season). What you are asking is a rather personal qualification to your set of values ... and you may find that Boulder meets/exceeds your expectations ... or may not, for various reasons. Boulder met mine when I was a college student back in the 1960's ... but it had changed so radically by 1968 that I had to leave for other parts of Colorado and never looked back.
Boulder has earned it's characterization as "the Berkeley of the Rocky Mountains" ... or as an Ann Arbor clone. It's liberal attitudes and polices dominate private business ... and welcome all only in the context of being in strict conformity with their idea(s) of what is right and proper. While you have perhaps read of some of the notoriety of several Boulder prof's ... be aware that they aren't functioning in a vacuum, but rather within a group of similar minded peers.
I've known more than several businesses ... of long standing, generations ... forced out by new zoning or business requirements specifically targeted to drive them away because they didn't fit into the views of the pollyanna dominant political forces of the town. Publicily funded "open space" ... good; Privately owned farm/ranch/equine stables ... "bad" due to noise, smells, activity, or some other aspect of their operation which offended the delicate sensibilities of the new residents of the area, although the neighbors sure liked having the scenic vistas at their picture windows. As Paul Danish said back in the late 1960's when Boulder started to restrict the issuance of new home building permits ... "everybody wants to be the last S.O.B. in the door" to the newly-found paradise; he was one of the architects of the restrictive zoning and policies of Boulder, starting with his career at the CU campus paper, then on to a local political career. He apparently found a highly receptive audience to the policies that made Boulder a pricey enclave, quite apart from most of Colorado.
I find it interesting, too ... that the attitudes of Boulder are pervasive in ways that you might not necessarily expect. In my experience, some of it within the last several years, even the medical professions are tainted to the extent that all the specialties I came in contact with are practicing "more bucks" type medicine. Not necessarily what is a correct or a best option for the patient, but certainly tailored to satisfy the practice's need for cash flow and glory. I had this type of experience with every MD I came into contact with in Boulder ... and, if I hadn't aggressively sought out alternatives and done my own research on the internet about my personal medical condition, I'd still be as ill ... if not in worse condition ... than when I started with them. Of course, we'd have exhausted every possible financial avenue to reach that result. In comparison, I contacted other groups of specialists in Cleveland and Houston who had the answers to my condition and a ready cure at reasonable cost which proved to be highly efficacious and a durable fix to my medical problem ... no thanks to the docs in Boulder who strenuosly advised that the avenue proposed by the other docs was not a viable solution to my condition.
Well, Boulder is not very large, about 100,000 people. About 30,000 of these people are CU students. There is a large turnover of these 30,000 people every year. All this makes a "sense of community" more difficult to pull off.
However, there are people who have lived in Boulder, often in the same house, for 20, 30, 40 years and more. Not everyone works for CU or the federal labs. IBM has a large presence in Boulder, as does Ball Aerospace. There are many small to medium sized companies in Boulder as well. In addition, many people who live in Boulder work in Denver and its suburbs.
I understand Boulder is much smaller and will not offer the variety of Seattle's neighborhoods, but I guess I was wondering if there is an area that is somewhat walkable, with a good sense of community, some cool local establishments, etc. that is NOT dominated by university students in Boulder.
My wife's job is at IBM, do you think we should consider living in Denver and commuting instead? Will Denver offer what we are looking for more than Boulder?
I understand Boulder is much smaller and will not offer the variety of Seattle's neighborhoods, but I guess I was wondering if there is an area that is somewhat walkable, with a good sense of community, some cool local establishments, etc. that is NOT dominated by university students in Boulder.
My wife's job is at IBM, do you think we should consider living in Denver and commuting instead? Will Denver offer what we are looking for more than Boulder?
I do not think you should live in Denver if your wife is working at IBM. It would be a long drive. Find something in Boulder or Longmont. Longmont has the old neighborhoods and way fewer university students. The closer you get to campus, the more dominated by university students a place (restaurant, store, etc) will be. The converse is also true.
I do not think you should live in Denver if your wife is working at IBM. It would be a long drive. Find something in Boulder or Longmont. Longmont has the old neighborhoods and way fewer university students. The closer you get to campus, the more dominated by university students a place (restaurant, store, etc) will be. The converse is also true.
Thanks for that. Longmont does sound interesting - can you tell me any more about it?
Also, it's not like we're allergic to college students, we'd just rather not live in a neighborhood that's dominated by them. I realize in most places in Boulder there's bound to be some college students around everywhere.
Thanks for that. Longmont does sound interesting - can you tell me any more about it?
Also, it's not like we're allergic to college students, we'd just rather not live in a neighborhood that's dominated by them. I realize in most places in Boulder there's bound to be some college students around everywhere.
I don't live in Longmont, someone who does would be more qualified than me to discuss sense of community, etc.
It has an old town, and some new areas. It has a struggling downtown and a mall. Some people live there b/c it is NOT Boulder.
You could try Louisville, too. I live there and I can tell you there is a real sense of community, a hopping downtown (though mostly restaurants), lots of festivals, all ages and sizes of housing. Very family oriented, though we moved here as a young(ish) couple w/o kids and felt very much at home.
I understand Boulder is much smaller and will not offer the variety of Seattle's neighborhoods, but I guess I was wondering if there is an area that is somewhat walkable, with a good sense of community, some cool local establishments, etc. that is NOT dominated by university students in Boulder.
My wife's job is at IBM, do you think we should consider living in Denver and commuting instead? Will Denver offer what we are looking for more than Boulder?
I agree with this based on my 10 years living there. The neighborhoods that are less college-oriented but centrally located are north of Pearl street, south of Balsam, and west of Folsom to the foothills. But these neighborhoods are quite expensive. North Boulder has been redeveloped since I lived in the city and seems to have a nice mix of residential and commercial but it's a little far from the Pearl Street mall to be considered within walking distance. I never cared much for the Martin Acres/Table Mesa area in the far south or the similar neighborhoods east of 28th but I'd certainly recommend checking them out if you are in Boulder, since everybody has different preferences. (These neighborhoods tend to be more generic then some of the other areas - think post-WW2 brick ranches, and are relatively distant from the city center.)
I've been told that the Eugene comparison is pretty apt, but I haven't explored Eugene in any depth.
My wife's job is at IBM, do you think we should consider living in Denver and commuting instead? Will Denver offer what we are looking for more than Boulder?
Look at the demographics as posted so far ... approx 1/3 of the Boulder population is students. Add in the CU employee base and those directly connected to the university, and you are looking at approx 1/2 of the Boulder population being CU connected.
While there are neighborhoods in Boulder that have priced themselves way past the typical student budget level ... most of these tend to be more remote to the core town area; less walkable, and without the commercial/restaurant/hospitality aspects you associate with in the Seattle area. My reference is areas like Belleview, Medina, Clyde Hill ... you can find little pockets of commercial activity in all of these, yet be very close to your residential area; you will not find a similar mix in Boulder's outlying residential areas which were not part of the university residential areas.
As far as commuting from Denver to Boulder, I wouldn't do it. It was a pain to do this back in 1968-1972 (when I did it for a Denver residence, work, and school), and the more recent traffic density has made this a rather ugly chore to do. Not saying that folk don't do it ... just that it will eat up a huge portion of your daily life today ... especially to reach that north side of Boulder to the IBM campus. Yes, Denver has several neighborhoods that would offer you more of what you're comparing to in Seattle ...
May I suggest that you look at the Hwy 52 corridor area East of IBM? You'll give up the walkable neighborhood to stuff, but your wife will have an easy commute to work ... and you can discover, as I did, something magical that happens when you step over the Boulder County Line into an adjacent County: the prices of land, property taxes, and housing drop dramatically. I had 5 acres off CR 5 and Hwy 52 and a custom built brick ranch home (2,800 sq ft, 3 bdr/2 1/2 bath), outbuildings, mature landscaping, 4 car garage, backed up to a large amount of open space ... for less than 1/3 the price of a comparable house on a 1/5 acre lot in Boulder. The corridor has good access to Longmont as well as Boulder. Take a look at the Erie area ....
Also, it's not like we're allergic to college students, we'd just rather not live in a neighborhood that's dominated by them.
I understand. By the time I was 25 I was already too old for the neighborhoods near the university, but I've also seen a lot of small cities with large universities in them and Boulder is not nearly as university-dominated as Bloomington IN, or State College PA (for instance). The Hill area in Boulder is a self-contained district that has everything students need (think the U. District in Seattle but with less of an urban feel), this allows downtown Boulder to function as an area that caters to more then one specific population group. Contrast Bloomington in which the downtown is right next to the University and thus IS the "U. District".
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