Mexico Against Prop 19 (law, legal, move)

[CalifornicateTexas]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

I find your post interesting. It implies the "conservative" Texas feeds its corporations, but not the poor. I lived in TX for 6 years, and have been here in CA for 7. Something I frequently ask myself is "what do I get for the extra money I pay in CA?" Texas actually takes very good care of its citizens. It's a very well run state. You can disagree with the predominant political view in TX, and that's fine. But please explain what it is that CA does for its citizens that TX does not?

Myself, I lean slightly towards liberal social values but with fiscal responsibility. As an independent and moderate, it's easy for me to see the virtues of both sides; as well as the vices. It seems to bother the hell out of the far left to think that a conservative state like TX can actually be doing a good job. Well they are. Reality is that CA is not well run, and certainly doesn't lead the nation in taking care of its citizens. People live here mostly for the nice weather and natural beauty. If TX had the same weather, beautiful coastline, topography, and scenic natural areas as CA does, CA would face an exodus of epic proportions. We put up with the BS tax and spend without extra benefit in CA because we enjoy all of the things about the state that have nothing at all to do with the government, and everything to do with mother nature.

wow, you just the nail on the head. I couldn't have said it any better, This is why I am moving to TX, yes the weather is nice in CA, but I think its more important to have a decent job and live in near poverty than to run around the beach in nice weather.

[415 Native]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Umm, I have residences in both NorCal and SoCal.

Oh really? and according to another poster here you told him you have 3 black belts also. It's easy to live a lie online, you're doing a poor job at it. So lets see here:

You have a PhD
You have houses in two very expensive area's
You have 3 black belts


Care to add on to your childish list of lies?

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

What moral goodness? What moral guide are you using to define goodness? You know, there are some who would claim that CA's taxes and high cost of living is a large part of the reason there are so many poor to begin with. That's like shooting someone and then claiming moral goodness when you administer first aid.

But if you can cite concrete examples of what the citizens of CA get that the citizens of TX do not, please share them. Frankly, I can't think of anything.

So yeah, this relates back to Prop 19. That money won't put a dent in our debt. Furthermore, it's almost certainly going to make the state less favorable for businesses. Does anyone think businesses will not consider this? When businesses leave, the state gets less money, and more people are unemployed.

Of course, none of this will happen anyway. It isn't going to pass. The feds will block it if it does. And the progressive sector of CA really can't complain if the feds do block it, because to argue States Rights put you in bed with some of the groups you despise.

You're right. I read 18Montclair's argument and thought, "Hmm maybe she's onto something." But after reading your post, you totally destroyed her argument with solid logic, and facts.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by 415 Native

You have a PhD
You have houses in two very expensive area's
You have 3 black belts

Guilty as charged!

[majoun]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

.

So yeah, this relates back to Prop 19. That money won't put a dent in our debt. Furthermore, it's almost certainly going to make the state less favorable for businesses. Does anyone think businesses will not consider this? When businesses leave, the state gets less money, and more people are unemployed.

While how much impact it will make on CA's debt problem can be debated, if anything it will make the state MORE attractive to businesses and more new businesses and jobs will be created in California. More people will be employed as a result of Prop 19.

If you'd lived in New York in 1927 when all Prohibition laws were repealed (despite federal alcohol prohibition being in full force), you'd probably have argued that the relegalization of alcohol would've hurt NY's economy and made NY into a "laughing stock", and would have driven away businesses from New York, and would have agreed with the economist Irving Fisher who believed that prohibition stimulated the economy as it increased productivity. Fisher today is most known for saying in the summer of 1929 that the business cycle had been abolished and America would enjoy permanent prosperity Needless to say, the events of October 1929 had zilch to do with NY legalizing alcohol and the only sector of the economy who benefited from prohibition was organized crime.

Especially after the Depression hit other states relegalized alcohol despite federal law, and this created the groundwork for Repeal.

Legalizing pot will not wipe out the cartels by any means (especially not Calderon's Sinaloa buddies) but their profits will take a hit. Calderon, like other politicians, wants to keep the profits for his buddies high.

Of course, none of this will happen anyway. It isn't going to pass.

Because the dealers will all vote against it?

The feds will block it if it does.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It might force federal action (refer to the end of Prohibition once again). Remember, even today when California's political system is disgraced, other states tend to copy its laws.

And the progressive sector of CA really can't complain if the feds do block it, because to argue States Rights put you in bed with some of the groups you despise.

So you're saying the progressives in CA were opposed to In Re Marriage Cases or the right for gays to marry based on states' rights? And liberals did rediscover state's rights during the Bush years, and if the GOP gets Congress will renew their interest in state's rights.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by majoun

While how much impact it will make on CA's debt problem can be debated, if anything it will make the state MORE attractive to businesses and more new businesses and jobs will be created in California. More people will be employed as a result of Prop 19.

If you'd lived in New York in 1927 when all Prohibition laws were repealed (despite federal alcohol prohibition being in full force), you'd probably have argued that the relegalization of alcohol would've hurt NY's economy and made NY into a "laughing stock", and would have driven away businesses from New York, and would have agreed with the economist Irving Fisher who believed that prohibition stimulated the economy as it increased productivity. Fisher today is most known for saying in the summer of 1929 that the business cycle had been abolished and America would enjoy permanent prosperity Needless to say, the events of October 1929 had zilch to do with NY legalizing alcohol and the only sector of the economy who benefited from prohibition was organized crime.

Especially after the Depression hit other states relegalized alcohol despite federal law, and this created the groundwork for Repeal. .

Are you seriously suggesting the legalizing pot will increase productivity and stimulate business? Really? No, it will not. And yes, the feds will step in and stop it. This argument is a bit like arguing that if they were martians on mars, and they needed to stimulate their economy, what should they do... It isn't going to happen. Keep dreaming though. I'll continue to champion causes that make the world a better place. I'll continue to champion causes that help insure our children have a better future. I can sleep well knowing that some people are expending their time and effort helping people get high. Yeah, that's a real noble cause.

[Stupid Boy]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

Are you seriously suggesting the legalizing pot will increase productivity and stimulate business? Really? No, it will not. And yes, the feds will step in and stop it. This argument is a bit like arguing that if they were martians on mars, and they needed to stimulate their economy, what should they do... It isn't going to happen. Keep dreaming though. I'll continue to champion causes that make the world a better place. I'll continue to champion causes that help insure our children have a better future. I can sleep well knowing that some people are expending their time and effort helping people get high. Yeah, that's a real noble cause.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by steel7

Calderon is a dirtball. I wouldnt believe anything he says & its ashame OUR president kissed his ass.

Talk about an ass, he is just that..He has no business even commenting on such an issue and is the epitome of a hypocrit. I had read the article a couple of days ago.

Nita

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by esmith143

Both our recent presidents.

When did Bush kiss his A@@?

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

So yeah, this relates back to Prop 19. That money won't put a dent in our debt. Furthermore, it's almost certainly going to make the state less favorable for businesses. Does anyone think businesses will not consider this? When businesses leave, the state gets less money, and more people are unemployed.

Of course, none of this will happen anyway. It isn't going to pass. The feds will block it if it does. And the progressive sector of CA really can't complain if the feds do block it, because to argue States Rights put you in bed with some of the groups you despise.

Agreeing with you, I can't imagine anybody so naive as to think that the Prop 19 tax revenue will put a dent in California's debt or budget. If anything, the money would encourage the state to spend more money simply because they can.

I think it stands a fair chance of passing, but agree that the federal government will block it in one way or another. At most the proposition may be a moral victory that may eventually lead to true legalization.

I can think of no reason why passage of Prop 19 would make the state any less favorable for business. Those who smoke pot will continue to smoke pot (and maybe worry a bit less about getting busted) and those who don't smoke pot will continue to eschew it. Being stoned at work will continue to be a valid reason for firing, and driving while stoned will continue to be equivalent to DUI.

Either way it won't change a thing.