California in the runnng for Tesla Battery Factory after all? (San Francisco: taxes, to live)

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

OK, does this make you feel better, if those jobs cant stay in California, than I rather those jobs go to Reno, Neveda or anywhere else in the United States than Washington state or Texas.

OK, I can grasp how many here have gotten sucked into the whole CA vs TX thing (pretty silly), but what the heck do you have against Washington State? I thought to myself that you added WA only because you saw that's where I'm living at the moment. But then I thought nah....he's not a kid.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

OK, I can grasp how many here have gotten sucked into the whole CA vs TX thing (pretty silly), but what the heck do you have against Washington State? I thought to myself that you added WA only because you saw that's where I'm living at the moment. But then I thought nah....he's not a kid.

Well it's not silly to the unemployed in the San Joaquin Valley, nor their kids.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

That would be like if I advocated that the entire tech industry should be systematically removed from the Silicon Valley because their air is not quite as clean as San Francisco's and I don't like it.

No need to worry about us - our air is fine (and SF's often smells like pee), and so is our tech industry, which has been around here for a long time now. Of course, the ongoing increase in mass housing buildings is making travel via a South Bay freeway a virtual non-starter, commute time or otherwise. Beware the wonders of the almighty "growth".

CV would have to take a detailed look at impacts on their already bad air quality when considering a factory and all the development that would accompany such a thing. How beneficial would all those new jobs be to people who develop respiratory ailments in the process?

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

No need to worry about us - our air is fine (and SF's often smells like pee), and so is our tech industry, which has been around here for a long time now. Of course, the ongoing increase in mass housing buildings is making travel via a South Bay freeway a virtual non-starter, commute time or otherwise. Beware the wonders of the almighty "growth".

You don't have sell me on the Silicon Valley, I love it, always have. Not to get too personal, but, My partner spends a lot time in Mountain View(his headquarters), my best friend-born and raised in Santa Clara has a home in Sunnyvale, close family in San Jose-Willow Glen and Evergreen since the early 70's.


You know I was being facetious about the air in Silicon Valley.

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

CV would have to take a detailed look at impacts on their already bad air quality when considering a factory and all the development that would accompany such a thing. How beneficial would all those new jobs be to people who develop respiratory ailments in the process?

The jobs could good mean those workers send their kids to good schools, and pay the medical bills of whatever respiratory ailments they may have. Such arrogance in our own State, not a care in the world for those people, as long as your produce is fresh and cheap.

Next time you stick your nose up in the air about the San Joaquin Valley dont forget the roots and history between it and the Santa Clara Valley(Silicon Valley). They were not that different 50 years ago. Only difference, the Santa Clara Valley was closer to all the jobs up the bay, and Stanford University was very close, which helped spark Silicon Valleys success.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

The jobs could good mean those workers send their kids to good schools, and pay the medical bills of whatever respiratory ailments they may have. Such arrogance in our own State, not a care in the world for those people, as long as your produce is fresh and cheap.

Next time you stick your nose up in the air about the San Joaquin Valley dont forget the roots and history between it and the Santa Clara Valley(Silicon Valley). They were not that different 50 years ago. Only difference, the Santa Clara Valley was closer to all the jobs up the bay, and Stanford University was very close, which helped spark Silicon Valleys success.

Chimerique. You seemed to be taking the positions you were based on concern for "the small people". Which concern, despite your apparent disbelief, I share. Just different view on the nature of the threats and how to realistically deal with them.

But I'm stunned by your comment here. You can't be joking again. The issue is too serious. You say you're not arrogant, as you accuse me of being. So that leaves "uninformed" as the default for your statement. Let me fill you in:

Most lung ailments are incurable. Some have management options. COPD. Asthma. Medications and portable oxygen for life in most cases. Some, like lung cancer, a disease of almost certain fatal outcome, basically do not.

Ruining people's health to support profit ventures is not acceptable.

The CV, and Los Angeles basin, have insurmountable geographic limitations to clean air. LA is the nation's worst city now for air pollution. It used to be much much worse. Even though population has doubled over the years since regulations were enacted to address the vicious conditions of the past, the regulations have managed to make it bearable for many.

The more we develop this state that is already at peak capacity for industry and pollution, the more we kill ourselves and our children. Sending them to the doctor to make it all better doesn't work.

[Chimérique]

We've already proven we can reduce air pollution with technology and we can step it up with more technology. Why the hell do you think Telsa makes ZERO-EMISSION CARS? Short answer: so places like the San Joaquin Valley can reduce their air pollution.

Your arrogance for the people of the San Joaquin Valley speaks volumes when you suggest they pack-up and leave their history, families and culture for another state. There are many people in California who would love to work at a new Tesla plant. So, should Tesla move the Fremont Plant to Texas too, why not the whole damn company. I guess you would be ok with that too.

So what is the goal to make California the land of the elites, for the ultra wealthy coastal snobs, or the financially-secure upper middle class who already have established their real estate gold mines, and prevent all economic growth and hope for the young families that would like to own their own piece of California. There's just not enough room for them, so make it impossible for them to live here, and they will eventually move.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

We've already proven we can reduce air pollution with technology and we can step it up with more technology. Why the hell do you think Telsa makes ZERO-EMISSION CARS? Short answer: so places like the San Joaquin Valley can reduce their air pollution.

Your arrogance for the people of the San Joaquin Valley speaks volumes when you suggest they pack-up and leave their history, families and culture for another state. There are many people in California who would love to work at a new Tesla plant. So, should Tesla move the Fremont Plant to Texas too, why not the whole damn company. I guess you would be ok with that too.

So what is the goal to make California the land of the elites, for the ultra wealthy coastal snobs, or the financially-secure upper middle class who already have established their real estate gold mines, and prevent all economic growth and hope for the young families that would like to own their own piece of California. There's just not enough room for them, so make it impossible for them to live here, and they will eventually move.

it isn't just a matter of enough acreage in the state, of course. California is huge. But there isn't enough space to fit all the people who want to be here in the prime desirable space. Plus all the infrastructure and resources and utilities that it all demands.

Tesla isn't making enough cars to impact pollution. Their market is targeted at those very elites you cast your anger at. Niche market.

If we were capable of simply reducing pollution with our technology - even by "stepping it up" - uh, we would not have any problem today as we do. This attitude of yours speaks to an incredibly oversimplified world-view.

And that is the difference between us, not insensitivity or arrogance. You like to think it's all as simple as "MORE" makes things better. I am a realist. Bet you're pretty young

I have no arrogance toward the people of the CV or anywhere else. What I have is an understanding of limitations. People have always either followed opportunity or created it individually, throughout history. We are here in America because our forefathers sought new opportunities against various limitations including oppression and starvation.

Social safety nets are important. But not a substitute for real life. California would be better off striking a deal with Tesla to hire its workers here and pay relocation subsidies to Texas - rather than acquiesce to lowering regulations to accommodate a toxic manufacturing plant in a place that would penalize the people already there through worsened health conditions. Also cheaper than continuing to support the unemployed. Help them seek a new opportunity. Not a bit of arrogance to it.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Tesla isn't making enough cars to impact pollution. Their market is targeted at those very elites you cast your anger at. Niche market.

They're planning a major expansion, that's why they need the new battery facility. And CA is keen on increasing electric vehicle use.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

They're planning a major expansion, that's why they need the new battery facility. And CA is keen on increasing electric vehicle use.

Yes. Yes. And yes. And they're still a niche market which share isn't going to touch pollution. Furthermore, even if it could provide measurable benefit, the nature of the battery factory remains - as does the vulnerable circumstance of the CV's geography. Do NOT put industry, development, and more traffic in the CV. Let Texas have its turn in the barrel. (old joke)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Yes. Yes. And yes. And they're still a niche market which share isn't going to touch pollution. Furthermore, even if it could provide measurable benefit, the nature of the battery factory remains - as does the vulnerable circumstance of the CV's geography. Do NOT put industry, development, and more traffic in the CV. Let Texas have its turn in the barrel. (old joke)

OK, whatever. But what intrigues me about the Tesla batteries is that they say they're fully recyclable, unlike the batteries used in the hybrids, AFAIK.