What year did you feel California started to decline from it's heyday? (Los Angeles: apartment, quality of life)

[Racer46]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

What?

California is the first region of the nation where people have started to: “… lock doors at home? … lock cars? … keep close tabs on kids at night? … experience high real estate prices? … need both partners to work?”

What the heck are you smoking tyger? I grew up in the 40s, 50s and 60s in Detroit and St. Paul (MN). Doors on houses and cars were damn sure locked back then both cities … violence and danger were rampant in Detroit especially. While real estate was cheap, it wasn’t any cheaper back in New York, Boston, Wash. D.C. than it was in much of CA.

That evaluation of yours is just plain nuts.

True, CA was not the leading edge of the decline as there were worse places. But it has, shall we , become an example over the years as many claim CA sets the example for others to follow.

I posted about what I have seen as a Californian, born and raised in CA, though I have also lived in other States. CA is still my favorite State, but life has declined in CA. It is just not alone in that. You have probably seen the changes to living in CA as you live in CA, and also living in other States.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Yeah it's just not worth it because some folks just want to be super technical and nitpick/argue on little things versus seeing the big picture. Makes perfect sense what you're saying and the hypocrisy among many in CA is astounding. There's always talk about CA leading the way on positive things, but it leads the way on plenty of negative things too. But many don't care because CA is full of people with money who shielded themselves from the issue or people who have been sheltered all their lives and think everything is okay.

Well Dab, you just skipped right over explaining the positions too … so how about, instead of complaining about “nitpicking”, you validate how CA desires to reduce population and prefers illegals, just for starters. Then move on to how building more housing will bring costs down to marginalized populations’ reach. Then how drug overdoses relate to Covid restrictions.

Those aren’t ‘nitpicky’ accusations. They are meat and potatoes declarations.

Tyger apparently can’t back his claim.
You agreed with him, but also provide no rebuttal.

Come on fellas, let’s give the readers some explanation. If you’ve got any.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Racer46

True, CA was not the leading edge of the decline as there were worse places. But it has, shall we , become an example over the years as many claim CA sets the example for others to follow.

I posted about what I have seen as a Californian, born and raised in CA, though I have also lived in other States. CA is still my favorite State, but life has declined in CA. It is just not alone in that. You have probably seen the changes to living in CA as you live in CA, and also living in other States.

This doesn’t make a lick of sense Racer / Expat. You posted your list as an example of how CA has led the way in declining safety, costs, and more. That’s not true. Those issues you cite have been “in decline” pretty much everywhere. You agree with that but still want to somehow hold CA as a prime example - well *just because*?

This business of using CA as an example for things not unique to it is *why the state is judged negatively so often* on issues common to our nation as a whole.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Aside from making any sense to me … um, you haven’t provided an iota of support for your claims that CA wants to reduce population

It really won't matter what support or links I provide. Been there. Done it a million times, more than most posters on here.

I'm past the stage of posting links to this or that. People just diss the source or whatever. So I don't see the point.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

It really won't matter what support or links I provide. Been there. Done it a million times, more than most posters on here.

I'm past the stage of posting links to this or that. People just diss the source or whatever. So I don't see the point.

What’s the point of posting if you can’t back up your opinion / point? You and I have agreed a number of times on some issues. More times, we have not. True.

But, you just made some broad, blanket assertions that have absolutely no basis I am aware of, unless you can explain further.

Where’s the evidence that “CA wants to reduce population”? You believe some of its policies have that effect. To whatever extent that may (or may not) be true, how has that goal ever been established as a goal?

Where’s the evidence CA “prefers illegals”? Same as above.

Given the long demonstrated desirability of living in California, resulting in massive influx of immigration (of all kinds) flooding the state with now massively more residents than any other state, and more than most countries of the world, and that the continual trend has been sharply upward with regard to wealth bidding up housing like crazy everywhere …. How will loosening development regulations result in housing affordable for the level of folks who are homeless?

And finally, in what way do Bay Area drug overdoses make Covid restrictions meaningless? You can argue the Covid restrictions are negatively consequential for a raft of reasons … but I can’t think of a single one where drug overdoses relate.

What do you got? ^^

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

What’s the point of posting if you can’t back up your opinion / point? You and I have agreed a number of times on some issues. More times, we have not. True.

But, you just made some broad, blanket assertions that have absolutely no basis I am aware of, unless you can explain further.

Where’s the evidence that “CA wants to reduce population”? You believe some of its policies have that effect. To whatever extent that may (or may not) be true, how has that goal ever been established as a goal?

Where’s the evidence CA “prefers illegals”? Same as above.

Given the long demonstrated desirability of living in California, resulting in massive influx of immigration (of all kinds) flooding the state with now massively more residents than any other state, and more than most countries of the world, and that the continual trend has been sharply upward with regard to wealth bidding up housing like crazy everywhere …. How will loosening development regulations result in housing affordable for the level of folks who are homeless?

And finally, in what way do Bay Area drug overdoses make Covid restrictions meaningless? You can argue the Covid restrictions are negatively consequential for a raft of reasons … but I can’t think of a single one where drug overdoses relate.

What do you got? ^^

You know better than most posters that I've often supported my positions with various links.

There are plenty of people right here on this thread and in others who have said openly they are ok or are happy with the decline in population in the state and want more of it.

But you also have to judge by actions and not words. The very video l linked to talked about how a refusal to build anywhere near enough housing for the last 40 yeas has contributed to the gap between haves and have nots in the state.

Pretty much every economist from across the political spectrum agrees California needs to build more housing to bring supply/demand into balance. I've said this about a million times (yes, I know that's hyperbole) and provided plenty of links which you have ignored or disagreed with.

You don't believe in the laws of supply and demand when it comes to housing. You don't believe increasing housing supply will reduce the growth in home prices and rents. Got it. We'll never agree.

But you're right. I shouldn't post on here. I've decreased my activity on CD over the last year or so because it's just a bad habit that I haven't completely broken.

[ohio_peasant]

California doesn’t aim to “reduce” population, and neither is there compelling evidence that it favors one kind of newcomer over another, or one ethnicity over another, and so on. But to Tyger’s point, there is a staggeringly entrenched reluctance to change zoning, to increase housing construction, to improve the residential options. California talks about modernism, environmentalism, urbanism and all that… but where are the NYC-style 10-story apartment buildings? Why is new construction, when it happens plywood 2-story condos, which look like they belong more in Ohio, where land is cheap and space is plentiful, than in a place where a square foot of dirt is the fourth of fifth costliest of any city in America?

Los Angeles right now could probably use two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand new 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom apartments. Make Atwater Village or Highland Park look more like Brooklyn or Queens. Build out of steel, concrete and brick – not particle board and stucco. Build a true, NYC-style subway that goes all of the way to LAX… or even better, connects LAX and Burbank airports. Look at a picture of Hong Kong, with skyscrapers butting right up against the mountains of Kowloon. Why can’t the San Gabriel Valley look like that?

[Finper]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

California doesn’t aim to “reduce” population, and neither is there compelling evidence that it favors one kind of newcomer over another, or one ethnicity over another, and so on. But to Tyger’s point, there is a staggeringly entrenched reluctance to change zoning, to increase housing construction, to improve the residential options. California talks about modernism, environmentalism, urbanism and all that… but where are the NYC-style 10-story apartment buildings? Why is new construction, when it happens plywood 2-story condos, which look like they belong more in Ohio, where land is cheap and space is plentiful, than in a place where a square foot of dirt is the fourth of fifth costliest of any city in America?

Los Angeles right now could probably use two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand new 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom apartments. Make Atwater Village or Highland Park look more like Brooklyn or Queens. Build out of steel, concrete and brick – not particle board and stucco. Build a true, NYC-style subway that goes all of the way to LAX… or even better, connects LAX and Burbank airports. Look at a picture of Hong Kong, with skyscrapers butting right up against the mountains of Kowloon. Why can’t the San Gabriel Valley look like that?

Agree but that would never ever happen.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

there is a staggeringly entrenched reluctance to change zoning, to increase housing construction, to improve the residential options.

I've never seen so much housing being built in southern California than in the past 8 or so years. It's everywhere. These homes and condos also look to be incredibly expensive, though.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

California doesn’t aim to “reduce” population, and neither is there compelling evidence that it favors one kind of newcomer over another, or one ethnicity over another, and so on. But to Tyger’s point, there is a staggeringly entrenched reluctance to change zoning, to increase housing construction, to improve the residential options. California talks about modernism, environmentalism, urbanism and all that… but where are the NYC-style 10-story apartment buildings? Why is new construction, when it happens plywood 2-story condos, which look like they belong more in Ohio, where land is cheap and space is plentiful, than in a place where a square foot of dirt is the fourth of fifth costliest of any city in America?

Los Angeles right now could probably use two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand new 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom apartments. Make Atwater Village or Highland Park look more like Brooklyn or Queens. Build out of steel, concrete and brick – not particle board and stucco. Build a true, NYC-style subway that goes all of the way to LAX… or even better, connects LAX and Burbank airports. Look at a picture of Hong Kong, with skyscrapers butting right up against the mountains of Kowloon. Why can’t the San Gabriel Valley look like that?

Correct (your opening statement in bold ^^)

But why would “ NYC-style 10-story apartment buildings” be a good thing? … bringing more congestion, stress on grid and water, parks, transportation, pollution. No matter how efficiently designed, that would increase population. And none of it would reduce costs to own or rent.

’Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell.” - Edward Abbey
Truer words were never written.