Do African Americans and black Canadians really feel Canada is more racist than the United States? (how much, living in)
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This poll is mostly directed towards people of colour from the U.S. and Canada. If you have any experience in each country, which one did you find more racist against black people? Many African Americans claim that Canada is actually more racist, so I am interested to know. I agree there is some denial in Canada that racism could exist here, so I would like to know from people who have to live through it every day.
Not sure there are many black Canadians on this forum. Hope you get some responses from them.
That said, while I will obviously defer to their views, my prediction is that most of them will say that Canada is less racist than the U.S. as they have mostly been socialized and acclimatized to Canadian society and its views (particularly its views on the U.S.).
Most of the black Canadians I know (most of them living in either Quebec or Ontario) would say that Canada is not perfect, but that it's at least not as bad as the U.S. for racism - since racism is entrenched in the history and is more systematic down there.
This is the type of poll you should have made public. There are not many of "us" who post regularly on this board and there are even fewer of "us" that have actual real life experience living in both countries.
Personally if I was to vote, it would be the 3rd option, as I feel there is no major difference on balance.
Obviously there will be more racial incidents in the US and a longer racial history as there are more black people in the US than there are people in Canada. Also the fact that Canada was able to escape the slave trade because of agricultural reasons, not moral reasons as is popular opinion.
Now if the question was where do I personally feel more comfortable living? I would say a major American city. I have been a victim of the bad (Racial/nationalistic slurs, police harassment, racism in the workplace) to the same degree in both the Canadian city I lived in and the US cities I lived in. At the same time in the US cities I feel like there are more resources in place for people of colour to latch onto if there is a racial incident. There are larger black professional, political and cultural organizations in place. You have to be black to understand how important these institutions are to your life because both countries are dominated by the typical old white man groups that are not as inclusive as you would like to believe.
Now to be fair, Canada falls short in this instance in big part due to population and just not having as many blacks people as the US. That of course is due to no fault of their own. So the effects of the slave trade have left a legacy in both countries, some good and some bad.
Finally I do find that you can have a more informed and open conversation about race in the US vs Canada. Americans are forced to own their racial history, while Canadians can easily wash over theirs as the treatment of blacks historically in Canada is not very well documented or taught to their citizens. I think alot of white Canadians would be shocked if they heard the conversations we had amongst ourselves. It would be uncomfortable but beneficial to have those conversations out in the open one day.
This is the type of poll you should have made public. There are not many of "us" who post regularly on this board and there are even fewer of "us" that have actual real life experience living in both countries.
Personally if I was to vote, it would be the 3rd option, as I feel there is no major difference on balance.
Obviously there will be more racial incidents in the US and a longer racial history as there are more black people in the US than there are people in Canada. Also the fact that Canada was able to escape the slave trade because of agricultural reasons, not moral reasons as is popular opinion.
Now if the question was where do I personally feel more comfortable living? I would say a major American city. I have been a victim of the bad (Racial/nationalistic slurs, police harassment, racism in the workplace) to the same degree in both the Canadian city I lived in and the US cities I lived in. At the same time in the US cities I feel like there are more resources in place for people of colour to latch onto if there is a racial incident. There are larger black professional, political and cultural organizations in place. You have to be black to understand how important these institutions are to your life because both countries are dominated by the typical old white man groups that are not as inclusive as you would like to believe.
Now to be fair, Canada falls short in this instance in big part due to population and just not having as many blacks people as the US. That of course is due to no fault of their own. So the effects of the slave trade have left a legacy in both countries, some good and some bad.
Finally I do find that you can have a more informed and open conversation about race in the US vs Canada. Americans are forced to own their racial history, while Canadians can easily wash over theirs as the treatment of blacks historically in Canada is not very well documented or taught to their citizens. I think alot of white Canadians would be shocked if they heard the conversations we had amongst ourselves. It would be uncomfortable but beneficial to have those conversations out in the open one day.
I'm not black but I've lived in both countries and have black friends on both sides of the border and have had numerous conversations on this topic. On the whole, I think they would be similar in terms of racism based on what I've heard. Black friends I have in Canada have experienced racism in some form or another at some point in their life and I've actually witnessed a couple of incidents myself firsthand growing up. Racism is not just about sensationalized race riots in black enclaves against police brutality we see on TV (and run ins with the police are not uncommon in Toronto too) or some rural hillbilly saying something ignorant, the institutionalized form is actually much more common today. I believe if a black person works hard and pushes forward, however, they can make something of themselves in either country but there are barriers and challenges to overcome for sure, and not everyone can get past them. And there are plenty of idiots in the US, Canada, France, Hong Kong, etc. Neither country is morally superior in this regard IMO but there are probably more idiots in the US numerically due to its sheer size and history.
I do find "black culture" and institutions, however, much more developed in the United States which is obviously driven by a different historical events. The sheer population size, deep history, political and social influence, civil rights outlets and support networks much more dominant in American society compared to Canada. This creates not only a comfort zone but helps push blacks forward, but there is still a ways to go. I've had black friends when I lived in the US who networked through Black MBA associations and landed great positions. Although they exist, I don't see as many success stories in Canada on this front. I had a black friend do a rotation with a major international bank in Toronto and he noticed the same thing. He had a good rotation, but he did admit that he felt more comfortable in a metro with more black culture/middle class. It's the same thing a friend's black husband said after he moved to Canada and then subsequently back. And I actually had the opportunity to a talk to a Raptor (former now) at a charitable event once and he indirectly said the same thing to me. I've noticed how the allure of black culture and support is a huge pull that at least help mitigate racial challenges.
I'm not black but I've lived in both countries and have black friends on both sides of the border and have had numerous conversations on this topic. On the whole, I think they would be similar in terms of racism based on what I've heard. Black friends I have in Canada have experienced racism in some form or another at some point in their life and I've actually witnessed a couple of incidents myself firsthand growing up. Racism is not just about sensationalized race riots in black enclaves against police brutality we see on TV (and run ins with the police are not uncommon in Toronto too) or some rural hillbilly saying something ignorant, the institutionalized form is actually much more common today. I believe if a black person works hard and pushes forward, however, they can make something of themselves in either country but there are barriers and challenges to overcome for sure, and not everyone can get past them. And there are plenty of idiots in the US, Canada, France, Hong Kong, etc. Neither country is morally superior in this regard IMO but there are probably more idiots in the US numerically due to its sheer size and history.
I do find "black culture" and institutions, however, much more developed in the United States which is obviously driven by a different historical events. The sheer population size, deep history, political and social influence, civil rights outlets and support networks much more dominant in American society compared to Canada. This creates not only a comfort zone but helps push blacks forward, but there is still a ways to go. I've had black friends when I lived in the US who networked through Black MBA associations and landed great positions. Although they exist, I don't see as many success stories in Canada on this front. I had a black friend do a rotation with a major international bank in Toronto and he noticed the same thing. He had a good rotation, but he did admit that he felt more comfortable in a metro with more black culture/middle class. It's the same thing a friend's black husband said after he moved to Canada and then subsequently back. And I actually had the opportunity to a talk to a Raptor (former now) at a charitable event once and he indirectly said the same thing to me. I've noticed how the allure of black culture and support is a huge pull that at least help mitigate racial challenges.
I think this is also an excellent post.. I haven't lived in the U.S but I think many Canadians look at the poorer parts of the U.S and the black experience in ghetto's or the latest black youth shot in many U.S cities by a white cop as the gauge for the black experience in the U.S.. While this is a part of it, there is also a huge middle and upper class black society in the U.S as well with those support systems you've mentioned that really can only be found in the U.S given the size and history of that community in the U.S.. This is why on the whole I think Ed's post was not only excellent for his personal experience as a black man living in both, but also he did so objectively and in a balanced manner.
Anyway, racism doesn't have to be in your face and on TV - it can be silent and insidious and I personally welcome the discussion about the topic here as a white Canadian.
I do find "black culture" and institutions, however, much more developed in the United States which is obviously driven by a different historical events. The sheer population size, deep history, political and social influence, civil rights outlets and support networks much more dominant in American society compared to Canada. This creates not only a comfort zone but helps push blacks forward, but there is still a ways to go. I've had black friends when I lived in the US who networked through Black MBA associations and landed great positions. Although they exist, I don't see as many success stories in Canada on this front. I had a black friend do a rotation with a major international bank in Toronto and he noticed the same thing. He had a good rotation, but he did admit that he felt more comfortable in a metro with more black culture/middle class. It's the same thing a friend's black husband said after he moved to Canada and then subsequently back. And I actually had the opportunity to a talk to a Raptor (former now) at a charitable event once and he indirectly said the same thing to me. I've noticed how the allure of black culture and support is a huge pull that at least help mitigate racial challenges.
Edward posted some thing like this a few years ago on here and it was the first time I had really thought about it. It actually opened my eyes.
This is the type of poll you should have made public. There are not many of "us" who post regularly on this board and there are even fewer of "us" that have actual real life experience living in both countries.
Personally if I was to vote, it would be the 3rd option, as I feel there is no major difference on balance.
Obviously there will be more racial incidents in the US and a longer racial history as there are more black people in the US than there are people in Canada. Also the fact that Canada was able to escape the slave trade because of agricultural reasons, not moral reasons as is popular opinion.
Now if the question was where do I personally feel more comfortable living? I would say a major American city. I have been a victim of the bad (Racial/nationalistic slurs, police harassment, racism in the workplace) to the same degree in both the Canadian city I lived in and the US cities I lived in. At the same time in the US cities I feel like there are more resources in place for people of colour to latch onto if there is a racial incident. There are larger black professional, political and cultural organizations in place. You have to be black to understand how important these institutions are to your life because both countries are dominated by the typical old white man groups that are not as inclusive as you would like to believe.
Now to be fair, Canada falls short in this instance in big part due to population and just not having as many blacks people as the US. That of course is due to no fault of their own. So the effects of the slave trade have left a legacy in both countries, some good and some bad.
Finally I do find that you can have a more informed and open conversation about race in the US vs Canada. Americans are forced to own their racial history, while Canadians can easily wash over theirs as the treatment of blacks historically in Canada is not very well documented or taught to their citizens. I think alot of white Canadians would be shocked if they heard the conversations we had amongst ourselves. It would be uncomfortable but beneficial to have those conversations out in the open one day.
Agree 110%
I'll also point out that because most Black Canadians are of very recent immigrant origin, not as many feel as connected to or invested in Canada both in terms of how they self-identify and how much resources and time are placed into the development of their own community here.
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