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Oh I totally agree with the sentiments expressed by all so far! And thank you for your input.
Yes, tough love is the order of the day. My husband went over there and told his mom, "Remember when I was growing up and you were in charge because my judgment wasn't the best? Now the tables have turned. I'm in charge. If you want my help, that's the condition. I'm in charge because clearly you and your husband do not have the best judgment at this point in your lives."
So far she's been fairly compliant (if you overlook the fact that we had to go over there and hide her car keys because her husband called her from the hospital and told her to come get him!). The real test will be what happens when her husband comes home.
He was insisting on coming home, against the doctor's orders, yesterday, even to the point of ripping his IV's out and getting out of the bed. But he calmed down when his niece offered to keep him supplied with cigarettes if he agreed to follow the rest of the doctors' orders. Sheeze.
Hi Kathryn
I stumbled across this thread because I'm facing something slightly similar to many here. Father just diagnosed with Alz and he has no plans for his care and his gf is being incredibly secretive so we have no idea how dire financial circumstances are yet she wants us to 'share in his care'. We are currently waiting for her response to our questions. We know he is broke having spent his inheritance. Very frustrating and judging by the thread it's not unusual. My cousin is also going thru this w her mom living with her. It all seems incredibly selfish and neither her mom or my dad had to care for their parents (and both had pretty generous inheritences which none of us have). Seems like there are a lot of them out there. Has kicked my behind in gear planning for my own future.
Anyway my heart goes out to you and others in this situation. It's not fair and it's hard being patient and understanding. We are all trying to secure our own futures and now we have to worry about theirs as well when they should have done it? When I get really angry and frustrated I go back to a Polish idiom: not my circus, not my monkeys. My sisters and I will do what we can. He's our dad and we love him but speaking for myself, I'm a bit angry. G
I certainly hope that he did not get hurt in any way (or cause an accident that hurt someone else).
However, it may have been a blessing in disguise. A social worker, the police or judge or whoever makes these type of decisions has actually proof that the FIL is not thinking rationally. That may be the first step in finding appropriate care or an appropriate placement for him.
Good luck to you and keep us posted.
OK, these people need to be in a safe and secure ALF. This kind of action is not rational. I suspect your FIL is scared of what is happening to him, and this feeling just makes him act crazy. But he needs help, even though he doesn't think he needs it.
I stumbled across this thread because I'm facing something slightly similar to many here. Father just diagnosed with Alz and he has no plans for his care and his gf is being incredibly secretive so we have no idea how dire financial circumstances are yet she wants us to 'share in his care'. We are currently waiting for her response to our questions. We know he is broke having spent his inheritance. Very frustrating and judging by the thread it's not unusual. My cousin is also going thru this w her mom living with her. It all seems incredibly selfish and neither her mom or my dad had to care for their parents (and both had pretty generous inheritences which none of us have). Seems like there are a lot of them out there. Has kicked my behind in gear planning for my own future.
Anyway my heart goes out to you and others in this situation. It's not fair and it's hard being patient and understanding. We are all trying to secure our own futures and now we have to worry about theirs as well when they should have done it? When I get really angry and frustrated I go back to a Polish idiom: not my circus, not my monkeys. My sisters and I will do what we can. He's our dad and we love him but speaking for myself, I'm a bit angry. G
Great response and I bolded the parts that really resonated with me!
My husband is 56 and recently (as in the past month) weathered a bout of pneumonia. During that time, his blood pressure soared to 188/112 and his doctor nearly put him in the hospital, but we were able to get it down to about 150/95 with meds. He's now on high blood pressure medication and is still very tired by the end of each day due to the recent pneumonia, though he's much improved.
I say all that to point out that we've got our own retirement to plan for. Also, whenever he gets around his parents, his blood pressure begins to SOAR because they are so maddening and frustrating. Sorry, but I'm not going to sacrifice my husband's health or our retirement needs to deal with these two people who have plenty of money and plenty of resources. We will help them as we can but we already did the whole "drop everything, spend tons of money, and do every single thing we can for them" thing just six months ago when they hit their first real crisis in daily living. All our efforts were completely "undone" within a few weeks - by them. They were horrible to deal with during that first crisis as well.
We have them settled with 24/7 care in their home - which is going to cost them a BUNDLE. But they insist on staying in their home, and they must have 24/7 care, so there you have it. I can promise you that within a few weeks, they will cancel a lot of that care, because it's cost prohibitive (about $10,000 a MONTH). They actually expected US to pay for this, well, my husband and his brother. They were shocked when we all said, "Oh we're not paying for this - you are." So, they'll cancel much of it - maybe have a person come in for a few hours each day at the most - and then the crazy cycle will start all over again and one of them will fall or have a stroke or something and another crisis will be on our hands.
Hold on tight, y'all, there's only so much you can do. If they are going to sabotage themselves you can't prevent it, only deal with the fallout.
KinA, DH had pneumonia a few years back and it took a year to get back to 100 percent. Take good care of him.
I am glad to hear that your husband eventually did get back to 100 percent. I had "walking pneumonia" about ten years ago and even that took me several months to get over. My husband is shocked at how tired he feels at the end of each day but I keep telling him that's to be expected. He'll be glad to hear that he's progressing as normally as possible!
As for dealing with the fallout from his parents' mismanagement of their lives, I agree that's about all we can do. I guess my rant is that we are to the point where we realize that we're going to set limits on just how much "fallout" we're prepared to take on. For instance, we're not going over there every day or even every other day - maybe just twice a week or so - because we know they are in good hands and we just don't feel the obligation to immerse ourselves in that drama every day.
We're not going to mow the yard or deep clean their house because we've offered over and over again and they've told us no, and apparently they can afford to have it done. The issue is when they DON'T have it done because they're loathe to part with the money. It's been hard to sit back and let their yard get overgrown - but we know they have the means to get that yard done, and why should we be shackled to maintaining a three acre yard in addition to our own large yard when THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN BE STILL LIVING THERE and apparently the yard isn't a burning issue with them? But it makes us feel guilty to drive up and see that crazy, overgrown yard.
See, the yard is a good example of what frustrates us so much. There's that awful yard - and the neighbors around them see it, suffer from it, and also worry about my inlaws when the yard gets awful looking, so they start calling, going over there themselves to mow it, fixing casseroles to take over to my inlaws because they realize that my FIL can no longer get on the riding lawn mower - and I'm sure they're thinking what jerks WE are to let that yard get so overgrown and to "abandon" my inlaws "in their time of need." But we know the back story - we know that 1) they can afford to pay someone to mow the lawn, and 2) it's not just the yard, it's the WHOLE PLACE that's too much for them to handle and all of their family has been offering to move them to an apartment in a retirement community of their choice, then handle the entire process of selling their home (with their oversight of course) - and they refuse. If we step in and start doing their housekeeping and lawn maintenance, then that allows them to continue living in a completely dysfunctional and unsafe situation. I think that's called "enabling!"
Plus - we live one hour away and the other son lives nearly three hours away. It's unfair of them to expect us to do all that for them. Not saying they expect it - because they haven't asked for it. But it's hard to sit back and watch them try to "live cheaply" and forego having the yard mowed, or having the house cleaned as often as necessary.
Great response and I bolded the parts that really resonated with me!
My husband is 56 and recently (as in the past month) weathered a bout of pneumonia. During that time, his blood pressure soared to 188/112 and his doctor nearly put him in the hospital, but we were able to get it down to about 150/95 with meds. He's now on high blood pressure medication and is still very tired by the end of each day due to the recent pneumonia, though he's much improved.
I say all that to point out that we've got our own retirement to plan for. Also, whenever he gets around his parents, his blood pressure begins to SOAR because they are so maddening and frustrating. Sorry, but I'm not going to sacrifice my husband's health or our retirement needs to deal with these two people who have plenty of money and plenty of resources. We will help them as we can but we already did the whole "drop everything, spend tons of money, and do every single thing we can for them" thing just six months ago when they hit their first real crisis in daily living. All our efforts were completely "undone" within a few weeks - by them. They were horrible to deal with during that first crisis as well.
We have them settled with 24/7 care in their home - which is going to cost them a BUNDLE. But they insist on staying in their home, and they must have 24/7 care, so there you have it. I can promise you that within a few weeks, they will cancel a lot of that care, because it's cost prohibitive (about $10,000 a MONTH). They actually expected US to pay for this, well, my husband and his brother. They were shocked when we all said, "Oh we're not paying for this - you are." So, they'll cancel much of it - maybe have a person come in for a few hours each day at the most - and then the crazy cycle will start all over again and one of them will fall or have a stroke or something and another crisis will be on our hands.
It's so frustrating.
My husband had a very bad bout with pneumonia in 2012 and it took a few months but he got better. Ended up w a blood clot in his leg from lack of mobility but that was good since he was then diagnosed w a vein disorder. Good times. Thankfully he's stable now.
Found out after I posted this that the POA we thought my sister had was changed to my dads girlfriend who at that time had only been in his life a couple of years (SHE told us my dad confirmed). She's a viper and is now in control of his estate, health decisions, everything. In the time he's known her his business of 50 years went bankrupt, he had to get a reverse mortgage, and his health has gotten worse. We aren't really allowed in the house. We asked for a meeting w just him and she won't let it happen at his house/our childhood home. And she's asking for respite care from us. This has turned pretty ugly. She is already limiting what we know (still wont tell us date of diagnosis, doctors name, medications prescribed, anything) and won't let us in his house. Last time I was there was 2 years ago. We surprised him at Xmas at my sisters and I wish I had a camera to catch her expression. She was furious! And she made him leave early. I am really dreading having to go thru her for access to my dad.
Stick to your guns and don't let them take advantage of you. At least they have the money to do it. I've seen what taking care of an indigent parent can do to someone. My cousin I wrote about above went into cardiac arrest Thursday night and has been on a ventilator unable to breathe on her own. The last time her mom was in the hospital she ended up in icu as well. Her own health problems coupled with an entitled controlling mother she has complete care of is too much and her mother insists on staying w her. Her mom has got to find new arrangements. The stress (coupled with her own health problems) is killing my cousin. This has gotten all too real for us.
OK, these people need to be in a safe and secure ALF. This kind of action is not rational. I suspect your FIL is scared of what is happening to him, and this feeling just makes him act crazy. But he needs help, even though he doesn't think he needs it.
Good luck!
I think it is that fear of change and having to face ones mortality that drives such resistance. If the they stay in their house and refuse to admit anything is wrong, they think somehow think things will get better.
It would be helpful if they would listen to reason, but it sounds like that advice can not come from within the immediate family. I suspect that such advice would almost have to come from someone in their generation.
My father sounds a lot like your FIL. He is extremely stubborn and having every increasing health problems. He absolutely will not listen to anyone in the younger generation, when that advice is any anyway negative. What I think my father really needs at times is sound advice from someone he trusts whose authority he can not refute. The real trick is finding that authority figure.
Do you think you could win, if you went to court to get your FIL declared incapable of handling his affairs?
Or better yet, I guess, do you think two docs would access him and certify their opinion that he is incapable?
Or not?
It is true that you can check yourself out of a hospital against docs orders, and not pay your lawn guy -- and that doesn't make you mentally incapable of handling your affairs.
Do you think there IS some dementia going on, or NOT?....no dementia he's just a cheap stubborn old man.
Do you think you could win, if you went to court to get your FIL declared incapable of handling his affairs?
Or better yet, I guess, do you think two docs would access him and certify their opinion that he is incapable?
Or not?
It is true that you can check yourself out of a hospital against docs orders, and not pay your lawn guy -- and that doesn't make you mentally incapable of handling your affairs.
Do you think there IS some dementia going on, or NOT?....no dementia he's just a cheap stubborn old man.
I'm not sure there's dementia - I think he's a very sick man whose body is so stressed out that sometimes due to the stress and the number of meds he's taking his mental sharpness slips and he has some memory lapses. If there's actual dementia, it's mild at this point in my opinion. But I could be wrong. We're going over there today to assess the situation.
And you're right about not having the lawn done, checking yourself out of the hospital, etc - otherwise competent people can choose to do these things. I think the things that alarm us most are him calling his wife (who DOES have dementia and who hasn't been able to drive in years) to DRIVE to the hospital to get him, the fact that they won't call anyone to change their lightbulbs and instead are wandering around in a house that's getting darker and darker as lights go out, and that there's a marked DIFFERENCE in their standard of living when it comes to cleanliness and keeping their place up. Clearly they haven't done the yard work themselves for several years, but they were having it done regularly. Now it's a mess. They have both always been very neat and clean individuals and now their house is dirtier and dirtier every time we see it - even though they have told us that they have THREE housekeepers coming in to clean it. It's like they just drop trash wherever they're standing which is weird behavior. Also - if they're too sick and weak to pick up a paper plate, how can they possibly take care of themselves?
I think it is that fear of change and having to face ones mortality that drives such resistance. If the they stay in their house and refuse to admit anything is wrong, they think somehow think things will get better.
It would be helpful if they would listen to reason, but it sounds like that advice can not come from within the immediate family. I suspect that such advice would almost have to come from someone in their generation.
My father sounds a lot like your FIL. He is extremely stubborn and having every increasing health problems. He absolutely will not listen to anyone in the younger generation, when that advice is any anyway negative. What I think my father really needs at times is sound advice from someone he trusts whose authority he can not refute. The real trick is finding that authority figure.
Good point. His older brother, who is not well himself, made the three hour drive up from Houston to try to reason with his brother -who wouldn't listen to a bit of his advice either. I think they are pretty isolated now from their friends because they stopped going everywhere.
It's a sad and frustrating situation.
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