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Old 06-21-2014, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,977,724 times
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A few months ago, my elderly inlaws, both of whom are unhealthy, had a crisis all of us could see coming - my father in law had to have a triple bypass (heavy smoker all his life), leaving my mother in law, with mild dementia, unable to care for herself while he was hospitalized. Long story short, we moved her in with us, where she proceeded to pout and make life extremely unpleasant for everyone involved. She has always been a very self centered person and her main concern at the time was getting her husband back home so SHE could move back home and have him continue to take care of her every need (did I mention that she's a drama queen?). This seemed impossible and everyone in the family agreed that they both need to move into an assisted living sort of situation. After a lot of discussion with all involved, including my father in law who was facing a very long and arduous recovery, it was decided that it would be best to place her in an assisted living facility alone for a few months while he recovered enough for both of them to move into an assisted living apartment together.

This made her furious and she pressured this very sick and weak man to move her back home and resume taking care of her, which is increasingly difficult because on top of her mild dementia (it's not completely debilitating), she PREFERS being catered to 100 percent, hates her physical therapy, and resists all efforts to help her be more independent. While she was in the assisted living facility (about a month), she greatly improved because they "had her number," - they knew that she was fully capable of walking, bathing herself, getting up and about and engaging in the many activities. What she prefers to do, however, is sit at home, have her husband do everything for her, and do absolutely nothing that challenges her. So...the very minute he was able to drive (actually BEFORE he should have been driving) she succeeded in pressuring him to allow her to move back home so he could resume catering to her every need and whim and neurotic tendency.

At this point, we sat down with both of them and gave them all sorts of information about agencies and resources who could help them - from lawn care to someone who could come in and help her with her bath (since she refuses to take a shower and insists on getting in and out of the bathtub, which is a big ordeal). My gosh, I can't imagine being so insistent on a bath vs shower that I allowed strangers to come in and hoist my naked, wrinkled body in and out of the tub! But I digress...

My father in law is not suffering from any significant dementia and is fiercely independent. He fights any effort to help them. He wouldn't even allow me to come clean their house once a week or drive them to their doctor appointments - though I offered over and over and over again. Nope - they got this.

Except everyone knew they DIDN'T. Every single family member has been begging them to get some sort of plan in place - to downsize, move to a smaller place (everyone offered to help them do this), get some regular help coming in on a daily basis, etc. We have all known that if one or the other of them had another crisis, they would both be unable to care for themselves, let alone the other person, for even 24 hours. Neither of them has any business driving. They are unable to cook for themselves, but wouldn't even call in Meals on Wheels! Instead, my FIL was driving to the convenience store or local fast food restaurants, and bringing home junk.

By the way, money is not an issue. They have very good monthly income, quite a bit of money in the bank in various retirement accounts, and their home has been paid for for twenty years. However, they don't want to actually SPEND any of this money!

We live about an hour away and they refuse to move closer to us, by the way. They live in a very small town and there is no way we're moving there.

Anyway, of course the inevitable happened - we got the call a couple of days ago that my FIL was in the hospital with a mini stroke, and that my MIL was at the house alone and can't care for herself. My husband went over there and get this - there was no toilet paper, or toothpaste, or dog food (they have a small dog) or milk or even basics in the house. The patio was filled with bags of trash - apparently they've been just tossing the bags out there. The fridge was full of rotting food - apparently they don't regularly eat their leftovers or the dishes that people bring over to them - instead they make a run to the convenience store or the donut shop when they're hungry. The yard was grown up and full of weeds. They do have a housekeeper who comes once a week and we were over there just a couple of weeks ago, so all this mess has occurred over the past week or so. We had just talked with my FIL a few days ago and asked him if he'd contacted any of the resources we'd gathered for him, and he told us, "No, and I'm not going to." Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?????!!!!!!

Apparently they have decided that they are going to do things "their way" and "be completely independent." What they don't seem to grasp is that all this does is force family members to be reactive rather than proactive - to drop everything when the inevitable crisis hits, and to have our lives spiral into chaos at the drop of a hat. My husband has had to take a week off work to try to get all this straight. After the last fiasco, we decided that there's no way his mother is moving in with us, so we've had to try to line up 24/7 care, which you can imagine is VERY expensive. She expects US to pay for this, but my husband told her "No way - this is your expense and you can afford it." As you can imagine, she's furious, because what she WANTS is for a family member to just come to her house and sit with her and wait on her hand and foot!

THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE. This is so unfair. I can promise you that my FIL is going to get all huffy and say, "Well, no one asked for your help anyway," but the bottom line is that we both believe that adult kids have at least SOME responsibility to care for their elderly parents. What are we supposed to do - just tell them that they're on their own? We can't force them to pay for anything and there's no way we're going to pay for this very expensive 24/7 care when they have the resources to take care of themselves (though they obviously don't have the ABILITY to do so).

GRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,168,330 times
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I have one small suggestion to start out. When my elderly aunt had her mild stroke the doctors told her that she was forbidden to drive until after her six month check-up after she was released from the hospital. They told her relatives to remove the keys and car from her house to make sure that she didn't attempt to drive before she had a medical release. Well, six months passed and it was pretty clear that she couldn't safely drive, but since the car had already been removed she never mentioned driving again.

Call his doctor and see what his policy is towards driving and be honest that you did not feel that FIL could safely drive even before his stroke. Perhaps, your FIL will need to take a state drivers test after he is released or they may have the same six month rule. Either way it would keep your FIL from driving to pick up junk food and may help them realize that they need help.

If your MIL is also unsafe to drive. Call the Dept. of Motor Vehicles and report her and request that they call her in for driving test. They get calls from relatives and neighbors all the time reporting dangerous drivers.
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 25,179,420 times
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The family has to unite and insist that change be made. But in my experience, a doctor saying that they cannot drive, as Germaine suggests, or that they must not live by themselves, can force a change. With the two of them, it might be harder for a doc to say that both of them should not be live by themselves, together, but if you can get him or her to say that, it will go a long way.

This is stubbornness and bad judgement. We fought with our mother for about a year trying to get her to agree to something, to no avail. Then of course she had a crisis. Your in-laws have had 2 crises. They need to move to an ALF, or pay to have 24 hour help. The family has to insist, and keep insisting. This is hard.

Good luck.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,977,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
The family has to unite and insist that change be made. But in my experience, a doctor saying that they cannot drive, as Germaine suggests, or that they must not live by themselves, can force a change. With the two of them, it might be harder for a doc to say that both of them should not be live by themselves, together, but if you can get him or her to say that, it will go a long way.

This is stubbornness and bad judgement. We fought with our mother for about a year trying to get her to agree to something, to no avail. Then of course she had a crisis. Your in-laws have had 2 crises. They need to move to an ALF, or pay to have 24 hour help. The family has to insist, and keep insisting. This is hard.

Good luck.
I agree totally. This mini stroke is a game changer for sure. I don't see how either of them can ever drive again and that is going to be the hardest part for my FIL to accept (my MIL is still mad as can be about having her keys taken from her, but after taking five hours to make a one hour drive one time, and driving down the wrong side of the road another time, even my FIL had to accept that she can't drive).

I think the family is united now. My FIL comes home today or tomorrow and we're going to have a very unpleasant conversation with him. We'll see what happens.

The last time (October) they had a crisis, even though it was my FIL in the hospital, even the nurses and doctors told us "You have two patients." So maybe this time we can get them to state that they can't live alone.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,168,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I agree totally. This mini stroke is a game changer for sure. I don't see how either of them can ever drive again and that is going to be the hardest part for my FIL to accept (my MIL is still mad as can be about having her keys taken from her, but after taking five hours to make a one hour drive one time, and driving down the wrong side of the road another time, even my FIL had to accept that she can't drive).

I think the family is united now. My FIL comes home today or tomorrow and we're going to have a very unpleasant conversation with him. We'll see what happens.

The last time (October) they had a crisis, even though it was my FIL in the hospital, even the nurses and doctors told us "You have two patients." So maybe this time we can get them to state that they can't live alone.
Good luck. I hope that it goes well.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:41 AM
 
293 posts, read 558,613 times
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I think your in-laws' problem is not so much lack of planning (they seem to have resources to pay for the care they need) as lack of willingness to face the reality of their declining abilities. Unfortunately, parent care is one of the few situations where adults (meaning you and the couple's children) can be more or less forced to take responsibility for situations you didn't create and can't control. A crisis may be predictable and avoidable but if it isn't avoided - guess what, the able-bodied and able-minded family members still have to show up and deal with it. Everyone expects it, and anyway your conscience won't let you leave the needy elderly relatives with a mess they can't get out of on their own. It stinks and it isn't fair, I agree. And your in-laws are setting up the situation by their unrealistic expectations both of their family and of their own capabilities.

It's a good thing the rest of the family seems to be getting on board with what needs to be done. Good luck!!
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,977,724 times
Reputation: 101088
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannagonorth View Post
I think your in-laws' problem is not so much lack of planning (they seem to have resources to pay for the care they need) as lack of willingness to face the reality of their declining abilities. Unfortunately, parent care is one of the few situations where adults (meaning you and the couple's children) can be more or less forced to take responsibility for situations you didn't create and can't control. A crisis may be predictable and avoidable but if it isn't avoided - guess what, the able-bodied and able-minded family members still have to show up and deal with it. Everyone expects it, and anyway your conscience won't let you leave the needy elderly relatives with a mess they can't get out of on their own. It stinks and it isn't fair, I agree. And your in-laws are setting up the situation by their unrealistic expectations both of their family and of their own capabilities.

It's a good thing the rest of the family seems to be getting on board with what needs to be done. Good luck!!
I agree with a lot of your post. However, I think my in laws lack of planning is the RESULT of their lack of willingness to face the realities of their declining abilities. Even after their first major crisis in October, they seem just as shocked as if they were 35 years old with this current crisis.

It is NOT fair, or right, for people to insulate themselves, refuse to cooperate or communicate, and then expect everyone else to jump through hoops and put their own lives on hold when the very predictable crisis comes along. In fact, it's rotten. They better get on board with the rest of the family or they'll be in for a few surprises next go round. In fact, they are already being surprised - because we all made it very clear that THEY will be paying for this 24/7 care - not us. Somehow in this whole big mess, they had the idea that it's the grown kids' responsibility to pay for their care, even though they are quite able to pay for it themselves.

We're the sandwich generation - we have kids in college and elderly parents all looking at us for help and for money.
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:38 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,541,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I agree with a lot of your post. However, I think my in laws lack of planning is the RESULT of their lack of willingness to face the realities of their declining abilities. Even after their first major crisis in October, they seem just as shocked as if they were 35 years old with this current crisis.

It is NOT fair, or right, for people to insulate themselves, refuse to cooperate or communicate, and then expect everyone else to jump through hoops and put their own lives on hold when the very predictable crisis comes along. In fact, it's rotten. They better get on board with the rest of the family or they'll be in for a few surprises next go round. In fact, they are already being surprised - because we all made it very clear that THEY will be paying for this 24/7 care - not us. Somehow in this whole big mess, they had the idea that it's the grown kids' responsibility to pay for their care, even though they are quite able to pay for it themselves.

We're the sandwich generation - we have kids in college and elderly parents all looking at us for help and for money.
It's NOT right, I agree. But, unfortunately, it seems to be the norm. Most of my friend and I have been where you are right now; kids in high school and college and parents that need us more than ever.

We ended moving my 88 year old father in with us and it was not without a great deal of angst. He was very depressed about giving up his freedom and we were all miserable.

We find a great lady (also older) who was able to come over 4 times a week and drive him wherever he wanted to go (the not driving was killing him). Luckily, they hit it off and enjoyed each others company.

BUT, I've seen my friend turn themselves inside out to try and care for a parent that lives hours away.

There is no easy answer.
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:47 AM
 
293 posts, read 558,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I agree with a lot of your post. However, I think my in laws lack of planning is the RESULT of their lack of willingness to face the realities of their declining abilities. Even after their first major crisis in October, they seem just as shocked as if they were 35 years old with this current crisis.

It is NOT fair, or right, for people to insulate themselves, refuse to cooperate or communicate, and then expect everyone else to jump through hoops and put their own lives on hold when the very predictable crisis comes along. In fact, it's rotten. They better get on board with the rest of the family or they'll be in for a few surprises next go round. In fact, they are already being surprised - because we all made it very clear that THEY will be paying for this 24/7 care - not us. Somehow in this whole big mess, they had the idea that it's the grown kids' responsibility to pay for their care, even though they are quite able to pay for it themselves.

We're the sandwich generation - we have kids in college and elderly parents all looking at us for help and for money.

Agree with all the above, but in my own mind I was contrasting your in-laws' situation with my mother's situation. She truly failed to plan. She has no resources to pay for the help that she needs now to manage day-to-day activities. She retired on a shoe-string at 58 and spent every cent that came through her hands, including several small inheritances, never imagining that she'd live to be old and decrepit. She truly needs to be in assisted living but there's just no money for that. She squandered all her relationship capital as well by pretty much ignoring her grown children and grandchildren during the 20+ years she spent flitting around enjoying her retirement, so nobody's all that willing to contribute to her care, financially or otherwise. Yes, it is rotten. Nobody should be allowed to do this. But it's done and there's no fixing it now. My life has been on hold for 3+ years tending to her daily needs and I see no end in sight.
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,977,724 times
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Originally Posted by wannagonorth View Post
Agree with all the above, but in my own mind I was contrasting your in-laws' situation with my mother's situation. She truly failed to plan. She has no resources to pay for the help that she needs now to manage day-to-day activities. She retired on a shoe-string at 58 and spent every cent that came through her hands, including several small inheritances, never imagining that she'd live to be old and decrepit. She truly needs to be in assisted living but there's just no money for that. She squandered all her relationship capital as well by pretty much ignoring her grown children and grandchildren during the 20+ years she spent flitting around enjoying her retirement, so nobody's all that willing to contribute to her care, financially or otherwise. Yes, it is rotten. Nobody should be allowed to do this. But it's done and there's no fixing it now. My life has been on hold for 3+ years tending to her daily needs and I see no end in sight.

My heart goes out to you. It really does. It's such a difficult situation.

My parents are very planful and though they are both in their 70's, we have ALL discussed their plans for future crises, and though we cannot predict WHEN the time will come to address those crises, we can at least rest easy knowing that they have put aside the money, and have updated their estates and wills, and we have all discussed what the steps will be when one or both of them need more care than they can handle themselves. So while it will be emotionally difficult, there should be no surprises or impasses for anyone. In my mind, that's all anyone can really ask or expect.

My inlaws' situation is compounded by the fact that they have never been nurturing parents or grandparents. My FIL is actually my husband's step father and there's always been a distance, even though he's been married to my MIL for forty years. My MIL has always been a very self centered person, who also has deep seated emotional problems that of course she's never addressed but has hoisted off on other people, especially her two sons, for decades. So not only is there no plan, there's not a lot of warm fuzzy or open communication, even though BOTH sons (who both turned out well and are very responsible) have been begging the parents for at least a decade to put together a good retirement plan, downsize their home, move closer to good medical facilities, etc.

One thing that is very frustrating is that they are very secretive about everything. It's "none of our business" and they "didn't ask for anyone's help," and yet they know that - and expect - their sons and relatives will step in and help out (buy groceries, drive them around, sit with them at home and at the hospital, line up care or take off work and do it themselves, etc) when the **** hits the fan. Which is inevitable. It's so irritating and frustrating. I mean, if these had been the sorts of people who were more than willing to step in and help, who were nurturing themselves, who were helpful and interactive before all this, that would make a difference. But unfortunately that's not the case.

I don't personally think that anyone is automatically infused with rights and expectations ONLY because they are related. Yes, we do have some responsibility toward family but I don't personally think we have a moral obligation to endure complete upheaval in our own lives just because we're related - especially not when they have the financial ability to pay for the daily care they need. They just don't WANT to. Well, too bad.

The bad thing is, we can't MAKE THEM line up and pay for services they need. Like I said, when we got over there in the middle of this most recent crisis, they were out of toothpaste, toilet paper, and dog food (among other things), and every light in their kitchen was burned out. Their fridge was full of moldy food and empty of necessary food items. Their patio was filled with trash bags because they were unable to carry the bags to the trash can so they were just tossing them out the door. Come on. All this happened within the past month because we were just over there for Mother's Day and then a couple of weeks later come to think of it, and there wasn't this level of chaos, though they did mention that they had a housekeeping team coming in (apparently they haven't been there in several weeks however - and who knows why???). I mean, why not call us and have US line up regular help, if they can't manage to do that? Apparently they CAN'T or are unwilling to pay for the needed help - though like I said, I know for a fact that they have the financial ability to do so.

It's so, so, so frustrating!!!!!!!
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