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My SIL has moved my MIL into her home and has cashed out her bank accounts. MIL is 92, blind and partially paralyzed. SIL will not communicate with the rest of the family, and no one has seen mom for many months. Mom's money will run out in about 2 years. We doubt they have entered into a Medicaid compliant caregiver agreement, so the money transfer, I assume, will be considered a gift.
We live in a filial responsibility state and are concerned we will be sued for nursing home expenses if mom ends up in one. SIL works "off the books" doing massage, and has never been terribly interested in mom's care until she got paid for it. I can't imagine she will want to, or be able to afford to care for her once the money is gone.
I guess that my first question is "Why hasn't anyone seen Mom in many months?"
Does SIL lock the doors and refuse to let anyone enter her house to see Mom?
Or have you really not tried very hard, such as calling and asking SIL what would be a good time to visit or calling an asking to take Mom for a meal in a restaurant vs. the entire family showing up in a group and strongly, forcefully insisting that you be allowed to see Mom.
How do you know that Mom is still in good health if no one has seen her in several months? Are any of you listed on her medical records as an authorized contact? If yes, please contact her doctors to make sure that SIL is taking her in for regular visits. Or better yet, request that one of you take Mom in for a check-up.
Sometimes caregivers that are "in it just for the money" do not provide the best of care to their "piggy bank" (oops, I meant loved one).
My SIL has moved my MIL into her home and has cashed out her bank accounts. MIL is 92, blind and partially paralyzed. SIL will not communicate with the rest of the family, and no one has seen mom for many months. Mom's money will run out in about 2 years. We doubt they have entered into a Medicaid compliant caregiver agreement, so the money transfer, I assume, will be considered a gift.
We live in a filial responsibility state and are concerned we will be sued for nursing home expenses if mom ends up in one. SIL works "off the books" doing massage, and has never been terribly interested in mom's care until she got paid for it. I can't imagine she will want to, or be able to afford to care for her once the money is gone.
MIL's sisters are 95 and 97, so... Thoughts?
I think the filial state worries are for naught. That 2012 case that everyone keeps referring too was extreme, and rare.
That said, how would you know that the accounts have been cashed out? Why have you not seen MIL??
We haven't seen mom because SIL won't answer the phone, respond to text or email or open the front door. In fact, when my other SIL knocked at the door, caregiving SIL turned up the television! I do think this person has a mental disorder of some kind and has historically been difficult to get along with.
We know the bank account was closed because my husband had online visibility. There is some more money elsewhere that we aren't sure that she knows about, but husband is loathe to try to move it until we can get a guardian appointed. It is her money, after all.
We have spent almost $10,000 so far trying to get her to a hearing for guardianship and a visit from a court appointed psychiatrist. SIL has blown off appts and evaded service of petitions.
This is such a messy and slow process. If her money runs out, will a nursing home take her? Will Medicaid pay even though she gave away her money?
We haven't seen mom because SIL won't answer the phone, respond to text or email or open the front door. In fact, when my other SIL knocked at the door, caregiving SIL turned up the television! I do think this person has a mental disorder of some kind and has historically been difficult to get along with.
We know the bank account was closed because my husband had online visibility. There is some more money elsewhere that we aren't sure that she knows about, but husband is loathe to try to move it until we can get a guardian appointed. It is her money, after all.
We have spent almost $10,000 so far trying to get her to a hearing for guardianship and a visit from a court appointed psychiatrist. SIL has blown off appts and evaded service of petitions.
This is such a messy and slow process. If her money runs out, will a nursing home take her? Will Medicaid pay even though she gave away her money?
From what I understand, you will have better luck finding a nursing home while there are still funds available to full-pay, and then request Medicaid coverage after the funds are spent. Regardless, in order for Medicaid to pay, she will have to spend down her assets.
Have you sought legal advice this situation does not sound good for your MIL. The money taken was it freely given or not.
I would also be worried she is not getting proper medical care. Regarding a nursing home they do like private pay b4 going on Medicaid. does anyone have her POA and health care POA. it also seems she is being held in an unsafe situation since she can't have people visit her.
We haven't seen mom because SIL won't answer the phone, respond to text or email or open the front door. In fact, when my other SIL knocked at the door, caregiving SIL turned up the television! I do think this person has a mental disorder of some kind and has historically been difficult to get along with.
We know the bank account was closed because my husband had online visibility. There is some more money elsewhere that we aren't sure that she knows about, but husband is loathe to try to move it until we can get a guardian appointed. It is her money, after all.
We have spent almost $10,000 so far trying to get her to a hearing for guardianship and a visit from a court appointed psychiatrist. SIL has blown off appts and evaded service of petitions.
This is such a messy and slow process. If her money runs out, will a nursing home take her? Will Medicaid pay even though she gave away her money?
Although, I am certainly not an expert in Medicaid, and it varies from state, to my knowledge if the person illegally gives away their money (or is cheated out of if before they are ruled incompetent) they can not receive Medicaid until that money had been repaid/used it.
I'll give an easy example let's say that Mom transferred $50,000 into her daughter's account and the nursing home charges $5,000 a month, even if Mom is approved for Medicaid someone has to pay the $5,000 a month for ten months until the $50,000 is "paid back". Obviously, if more money was taken/transferred there would be a longer wait until Medicaid starts to pay.
It is a very complicated system. If SIL has pay stubs or written records and/or paid income taxes on the money that Mom gave her/paid her for caregiving it may work out fine.
My hubby recently was approved for Medicaid. We had very little money so it was not hard for us to keep it vs. give it away. But, after we sold our condo, I decided to pay off a few thousand dollars that my daughter owed on a credit card (she was leaving the country to be in the Peace Corps and would have no way to make payments). Even though it was a joint account between my daughter and me Medicaid determined that since SHE had made most of the purchases and I had paid it off, hubby and I were penalized for the full amount, as they considered it an illegal transfer of money (ie. hiding money from Medicaid).
It worked out Ok for us as they started the pay-back date from when we applied for Medicaid and it was "paid back" before hubby's first day in a facility. So in my state there is a benefit to start the Medicaid process several months before it is needed (in addition, it often takes several months to be approved and some facilities may have a several month waiting list for Medicaid beds.
I would suggest contacting the local Council on Aging (it may have a similar title) and ask then what to do.
Good luck.
PS, When we were looking my son called 40 to 50 places in our area and only two had Medicaid beds and a vacancy. Almost every place required 12 to 24 months of self pay before they accepted someone wo would transfer to Medicaid (and most had only very limited Medicaid beds -perhaps only 2% to 5% of their total beds). One place only took people who could self pay for 36 months. Of course, your city may be very different.
Last edited by germaine2626; 04-05-2017 at 10:49 AM..
Ironically, we think mom is well cared for. And we don't dispute that SIL should be compensated for her nursing care and extra expenses.
Basically, there are two issues: maintaining Medicaid eligibility and having reasonable access to mom.
We have a case started with the local corporation for aging, but they move even more slowly than the courts. They have interviewed the other four siblings and mom's 95 year old sister, but have given us no information about what they're doing. If anything. This is since January.
Eventually, there may be a hearing where the court could appoint a guardian, at which time the remainder of mom's money could be spent in a Medicaid compliant way. If there is any left.
Maybe this service is only available in rural/small town areas, but the local law enforcement will do "welfare checks". Meaning they will go to the residence & visually check on the welfare of whomever you are concerned about & can't seem contact-- usually the elderly or a minor.
In your situation I would call the police and ask for a health and welfare check.
And I'd be right there behind them so I could visit my Mom.
ETA: Looks like we posted at the same time.
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