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Ani, I've generally respected what you have to say on these forums, but I have to say that I'm shocked by your response to this. To say that Char-Meck government is racist against white people is just ludicrous. I'd also suggest that you don't know what generation I am from, and that maybe college professors who have devoted their whole lives to this might have some perspective to offer on this matter.
It's your reaction that is showing a lack of critical thinking, not mine. You heard something, were offended, and stopped processing your thoughts beyond that.
Your post boiled down to "there cant be racism against whites because they are in power"
Ani simply informed you that, no, they are not in power here in this local govt.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
When you made a blanket statement and since I am a member of that same racial group that you feel has, overall, been privileged, of course the assumption is made that you were including me. After all, we are talking collectives here. Why give me a pass? Your last sentence once again distinguishes that I may have worked hard, but the experiences you assume I have had would necessarily have to be vastly different than those of a black woman.
I don't know if you were an adult in the 70s . . . and maybe you were in journalism and the arts in the 70s . . . these are things I do not know. But I can assure you, women - regardless of race - were way behind every male on the corporate ladder, including black males. Since I was not in broadcast journalism, I can't speak to that situation. I sure remember a black man or woman in front of a camera was a rare situation then. However, in organizational corporate communications and for print journalism, women were relegated to the butt-end of the business jobs, and with the lowest pay, as well. I was paid less than the men delivering furniture in one organization. Black women could get a job beside me (and did) but we were kept in entry positions, and few females had even a glimmer of hope of moving up to a management position until the late 70s to early 80s. Even then, female managers were uncommon, and they reported to males.
Maybe others lived in a different world, but as a female thinking about a career in the late 60s and here in the South, well into the 70s, women knew we could choose to become a secretary (not an assistant, the pay was too low to tack on THAT title), a nurse or a teacher. Period.
When I ventured to DC, Chicago, Boston, etc in the late 70s, I found that women had not been brainwashed as we had in the South, and women had fought to get their JD degrees, medical degrees, etc. But that was more or less unthinkable at the time I was deciding on college. Although she is older than I, don't forget that Elizabeth Dole was the only female in her law school class. How she had the fortitude to see beyond the expected path for women who grew up in Salisbury has always been interesting to me. Add Maya Angelou and Oprah Winfrey to that mix (black Southern women, Angelou being from an earlier generation) and I am convinced that only a very strong person determined to overcome circumstances -- and willing to move out of the family circle -- had a chance in hell of breaking through the "expected" roles women were supposed to fulfill, whether black or white.
So no, I didn't feel I was a person of privilege because I was a white female. I, along with my peers, had to fight for everything, and we knew Civil Rights law as it applied to us and there were times we had to use it (and then we were labeled as "trouble").
The privileged women were those from wealthy families, who got married early to an up and coming professional male, which guaranteed upperclass income and lifestyle, on one income. Those women were statistically overwhelmingly white. And they were not in the trenches fighting for a career.
If it is something you believe, then it is a belief. And if you believe that Ratliff didn't mean what she said, you have an unfounded belief.
Let me explain. Ratliff not only said she felt a non-white male would be the best choice. She added a descriptive phrase to further define this non-white male - she said "forward-thinking." That means she has a bias that white males are also not forward-thinking. This is called "taking something to its logical conclusion." That is a bias, a preconceived notion, which is the definition of prejudice.
I will give her the benefit of the doubt and agree that it is likely she didn't mean to exclude the possibility of women in that role, but in her mind, when it came to describing the person she envisions as being the best leader in the position, she thought only of males, and non-white, forward thinking males, at that.
So she can backstep all she wants. She wants county leadership that reflects the vision she has for this county - "forward-looking" majority black leadership.
Ani, I was going to address that poster, but I'm going to tie my comments to yours, if you don't mind.
Saying that we were privileged means that either the person saying it was born after about 1970 & has listened to the wrong dialog or assumes that were were born into the upper class.
I was born in Michigan & spent my childhood there. Mom always said "There's not much difference between us & the South, except the accent."
I remember hearing adult black men addressed as "boy" & adult black women adressed as "girl" by certain people. However, there was a derogatory word used to address white women (except the wealthy), & that was "gal". I wasn't very old when I realized that with the exception of "guys & gals", "gals" was derogatory. This is why little girls in the North addressed each other with "guys" in the 50s & 60s & when we got into the workforce, we requested that people address us in a group without singling us out with the term gal.
If you grew up white & female you could work in a factory, as a hairdresser, or as a waitress. If you went to secretarial school, you could be a secretary, which usually paid less than factory workers, but it was a "clean" job. If you went to college, you could be a teacher, a librarian, or a nurse. It didn't matter if you happened to be black (colored was the polite term, then.) or white, it was the same for both.
If you came from a wealthy family, you could try your hand at being a doctor or a lawyer, but your clients would be limited. I could go on, but that's enough to set the tone.
Ms Ratliff stated that she wants to see a non-white male hired. She even doubled down on it until she realized that the people continued to be irate, but I have not heard an apology. 3 counties are looking for county managers, including Mecklenburg. If anyone thinks that it doesn't matter if she has a vote on the next county manager, think again. She poisoned the well & the whole selection process will have a taint if she votes.
SOUTHBOUND: she offered a further explanation of what she "really meant," but even though it has been characterized as an apology, it didn't sound like one to me. It sounded like more backstepping and wriggling to "expand" on her earlier statements.
As I said earlier . . . I, personally, as a citizen of this county didn't need an apology. What I want is assurance that a hidden agenda is not in place to ensure that whites are not selected for leadership roles in county government.
In regard to your recently added post, SB, I wanted to add . . . yes, librarian was a choice for women here in the South, too, as was factory work, but even the factory work was relegated to only certain departments. You could be a "cutter" but not an upholsterer, as uphostering (along with the high salaries that went with that skill) was a "man's job."
Here is a link from the Charlotte Observer about Ratliff.
Ms Ratliff stated that she wants to see a non-white male hired. She even doubled down on it until she realized that the people continued to be irate, but I have not heard an apology. 3 counties are looking for county managers, including Mecklenburg. If anyone thinks that it doesn't matter if she has a vote on the next county manager, think again. She poisoned the well & the whole selection process will have a taint if she votes.
I think the correction was she didn't say male. I don't remember the exact quote but it should be up there in a correction or on WBT's site. Not a big difference and the same for the race. Basically what she appears to have meant is anything but a white male.
I think there is a taint but let me ask you if the vote was 9-0 and she voted, would there still be a taint? If so explain.
One story to add about the mid west. My mom was young but either West Chicago or Elgin had the rule that the blacks were out when the sun set. They didn't live there just worked so they had no business there after the shift ended.
I was real young when I was told that story and I couldn't believe it. Never heard anything like that in the "new south" though I did here the N word.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
SOUTHBOUND: she offered a further explanation of what she "really meant," but even though it has been characterized as an apology, it didn't sound like one to me. It sounded like more backstepping and wriggling to "expand" on her earlier statements.
As I said earlier . . . I, personally, as a citizen of this county didn't need an apology. What I want is assurance that a hidden agenda is not in place to ensure that whites are not selected for leadership roles in county government.
In regard to your recently added post, SB, I wanted to add . . . yes, librarian was a choice for women here in the South, too, as was factory work, but even the factory work was relegated to only certain departments. You could be a "cutter" but not an upholsterer, as uphostering (along with the high salaries that went with that skill) was a "man's job."
Here is a link from the Charlotte Observer about Ratliff.
Didn't sound like much of an apology to me, either.
I forgot to mention domestics. White women worked as domestics, too. All of my mother's aunts worked as domestics when they left home. Her Aunt Alice worked her way up to be the cook for a wealthy family in Milwaukee. It was a prestigious job, but the pay was so bad that she couldn't afford an apartment, so she lived with her employer who deducted room & board.
During WWII, Alice got a job as a fork-lift operator at a brewery in Milwaukee. She had to join a union. She made enough money to buy a house. After the war, the women were told to resign. Alice was going to lose her house, so she went to the union. The union forced the brewery to keep her.
Another of my mother's aunts, Beulah, baked pies for a resort hotel near her house after her marriage, to supplement the family income.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,670,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte
I think the correction was she didn't say male. I don't remember the exact quote but it should be up there in a correction or on WBT's site. Not a big difference and the same for the race. Basically what she appears to have meant is anything but a white male.
I think there is a taint but let me ask you if the vote was 9-0 and she voted, would there still be a taint? If so explain.
One story to add about the mid west. My mom was young but either West Chicago or Elgin had the rule that the blacks were out when the sun set. They didn't live there just worked so they had no business there after the shift ended.
I was real young when I was told that story and I couldn't believe it. Never heard anything like that in the "new south" though I did here the N word.
If she does not recuse herself there is a taint. It doesn't matter if the vote is 9-0. The taint is that people will think that there is a bias if she's involved & not apply. Stop & think about it. If someone suspects that they won't have fair consideration because of what they are, they can apply to Cleveland or Gaston & wait for the next opening in Mecklenburg.
I believe what your mom said. I vaguely remember hearing about that sort of thing in the Chicago area. Was that in the late 60s?
If she does not recuse herself there is a taint. It doesn't matter if the vote is 9-0. The taint is that people will think that there is a bias if she's involved & not apply. Stop & think about it. If someone suspects that they won't have fair consideration because of what they are, they can apply to Cleveland or Gaston & wait for the next opening in Mecklenburg.
I believe what your mom said. I vaguely remember hearing about that sort of thing in the Chicago area. Was that in the late 60s?
I'd think it would have been in the 50s or early 60s and she may have heard it from a relative but one that was living there. Can you define taint for me?
The problem I have over what you are saying is that you say if the vote is 9-0 then there's a taint. Then you say people won't apply if they think there's a bias. Do you mean they won't apply for future jobs or the manager's job that is open right now? The vote comes after people apply for the job so that taint is already done and cannot be fixed.
If a white male was voted on and the vote was 9-0 then no I don't think people will avoid Meck because they think there's a bias because she voted for a white guy.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte
I'd think it would have been in the 50s or early 60s and she may have heard it from a relative but one that was living there. Can you define taint for me?
The problem I have over what you are saying is that you say if the vote is 9-0 then there's a taint. Then you say people won't apply if they think there's a bias. Do you mean they won't apply for future jobs or the manager's job that is open right now? The vote comes after people apply for the job so that taint is already done and cannot be fixed.
If a white male was voted on and the vote was 9-0 then no I don't think people will avoid Meck because they think there's a bias because she voted for a white guy.
I remember hearing about curfews for blacks in the Chicago area in the late 60s, after the riots started occurring.
Ms Ratliff put a taint on the job opening when she said that she does not want a white man to get the job. She might as well have said that if you're a white male you won't get serious consideration, regardless of background & skills. She contaminated the job search.
If she recuses herself it minimizes the taint & contains it to this job. If she votes for this job it spreads the taint, because it sends the message to applicants that white men need not apply & her statement is an attitude shared by others.
I remember hearing about curfews for blacks in the Chicago area in the late 60s, after the riots started occurring.
Ms Ratliff put a taint on the job opening when she said that she does not want a white man to get the job. She might as well have said that if you're a white male you won't get serious consideration, regardless of background & skills. She contaminated the job search.
If she recuses herself it minimizes the taint & contains it to this job. If she votes for this job it spreads the taint, because it sends the message to applicants that white men need not apply & her statement is an attitude shared by others.
Gotcha and yeah though I was born there I'm kind of glad I didn't grow up there.
Well if the final candidate is opposite of what she says and she votes for them then that might also be reverse tainting.
The next question is do we lose quality applicants or not? Maybe the best applicant is used to this crap no matter where it is and knows how to deal with it. Or maybe not.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte
Gotcha and yeah though I was born there I'm kind of glad I didn't grow up there.
Well if the final candidate is opposite of what she says and she votes for them then that might also be reverse tainting.
The next question is do we lose quality applicants or not? Maybe the best applicant is used to this crap no matter where it is and knows how to deal with it. Or maybe not.
Well, this is what I've been trying to convey. If she votes, it sends a message to white males & probably others. The best candidates will not want involvement with the county for fear that it will harm them in the future for potential jobs. The best candidates will look at Cleveland & Gaston Counties.
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