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Mark it down: Charlotte (and it's residents) are in for a big headache. I have seen this planning pattern before, and the end result isn't pretty.
In NYC, roads are arranged in a grid like pattern, which allows for the free flowing of traffic. Moreover, mass transit abounds. You can live in Manhattan, Brooklyn, or Queens without a car; many people do, and some people go decades without owning a vehicle.
Not only is mass transit lacking in Charlotte, but local streets don't permit "cutting through" a neighborhood; thus traffic is too heavily dependent upon primary roads (which have inadequate laneage).
Real estate in Charlotte is still somewhat affordable, but that will change as population increases, which means that the population will continue to move further and further away from downtown CLT. The idea that people will live close to their places of employment is foolish; people will only do that if they can afford to.
The City needs a solid plan on how they plan to move citizens about the City, in a timely fashion. Light rail is a great choice in that regard, but the City needs to proceed in a proactive fashion before more building (e.g. River District).
I was at the Aldi in Gastonia last Saturday. One of the employees was telling me that he's from the Shelby store. They are still undergoing renovations & he told me that Belmont closed for renovations last week. Employees for all 3 stores are working in the Gastonia store which is currently getting daily deliveries.
When I left it was dark, but I noticed what appeared to be 3 or 4 story apartments being built on Union, just north of Aldi, on the west side of the road.
I was at the Aldi in Gastonia last Saturday. One of the employees was telling me that he's from the Shelby store. They are still undergoing renovations & he told me that Belmont closed for renovations last week. Employees for all 3 stores are working in the Gastonia store which is currently getting daily deliveries.
When I left it was dark, but I noticed what appeared to be 3 or 4 story apartments being built on Union, just north of Aldi, on the west side of the road.
Indeed...they're building all over Gaston.
Having moved from Long Island NY, I watched as the Island grew, and the consequences of that growth.
As the Island grew in population, areas nearer (25 miles from) Manhattan got to be too expensive. This pushed middle class folks further and further East. As Suffolk County developed, it too, got to be too expensive for middle class folks.
Millennials on Long Island are living with their Parents, for rents are too high. A lot of companies moved off of the Island in spite of the talent that is there, because the cost of doing business is too high. Many immigrants who are employed by wealthy folks live in unsafe conditions, as they have to combine resources to afford housing. Local governments cannot afford to operate as the middle class leave the Island, so they rely on schemes to bilk funds from the population.
Poor planning ensures that there's a 4-4.5 hour window, morning and evening, for rush hour traffic. As a result of daily pressures (economic and otherwise), the population is not pleasant to deal with.
The few things that sustain the Island are well thought of schools (and an influx of wealthy Asian immigrants who're attracted to the Island as a result); the family attachment people have, and the attachment that professionals have to the population (e.g. private law, health, and accounting, practices; government jobs).
Most of what caused a failure of the Island, can be laid directly at the suburban model it followed. A rural community requires few services, and is inexpensive to operate; an urbanized area requires services, but has the population to share the costs - holding down individual expenses. One or the other, but a suburban model is no longer sustainable.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,702,154 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDL
Indeed...they're building all over Gaston.
Having moved from Long Island NY, I watched as the Island grew, and the consequences of that growth.
As the Island grew in population, areas nearer (25 miles from) Manhattan got to be too expensive. This pushed middle class folks further and further East. As Suffolk County developed, it too, got to be too expensive for middle class folks.
Millennials on Long Island are living with their Parents, for rents are too high. A lot of companies moved off of the Island in spite of the talent that is there, because the cost of doing business is too high. Many immigrants who are employed by wealthy folks live in unsafe conditions, as they have to combine resources to afford housing. Local governments cannot afford to operate as the middle class leave the Island, so they rely on schemes to bilk funds from the population.
Poor planning ensures that there's a 4-4.5 hour window, morning and evening, for rush hour traffic. As a result of daily pressures (economic and otherwise), the population is not pleasant to deal with.
The few things that sustain the Island are well thought of schools (and an influx of wealthy Asian immigrants who're attracted to the Island as a result); the family attachment people have, and the attachment that professionals have to the population (e.g. private law, health, and accounting, practices; government jobs).
Most of what caused a failure of the Island, can be laid directly at the suburban model it followed. A rural community requires few services, and is inexpensive to operate; an urbanized area requires services, but has the population to share the costs - holding down individual expenses. One or the other, but a suburban model is no longer sustainable.
I moved down here from Cherry Hill, in South Jersey. I remember when it was, essentially, Kings Mountain with a mall instead of a downtown. I know, from experience, that there's a sweet spot when there are enough people to get what's needed & then if you go beyond that it brings unpleasant conditions.
I've never been to Long Island, but my father worked in agricultural chemicals & used to go there to work with the county agent, concerning the potato farmers.
There's so much rural land down here that I'm not concerned at this point. The good thing is that Gastonia & Kings Mountain are looking at density. The annexation law changes by the Republicans in Raleigh have promoted density & sprawl at the same time. It was, overall, a bad law.
The newest apartment complex in Kings Mountain had 2 story buildings. They have a waiting list of about 500 people. They went back to city hall & asked permission to expand. The newer units will be in 3 story buildings.
You're looking at a different dynamic out here than Union County. These are 19th century towns.
There used to be commuter rail from Kings Mountain & Gastonia into Charlotte that was stopped in the 1960s. Natives want it back. They'd prefer light rail.
Like I said, this is a whole different dynamic. The officials know that they need density. They don't need skyscrapers, but 3 or 4 story apartments are a start, & that means that unused land can stay empty longer.
Mark it down: Charlotte (and it's residents) are in for a big headache. I have seen this planning pattern before, and the end result isn't pretty.
In NYC, roads are arranged in a grid like pattern, which allows for the free flowing of traffic. Moreover, mass transit abounds. You can live in Manhattan, Brooklyn, or Queens without a car; many people do, and some people go decades without owning a vehicle.
Not only is mass transit lacking in Charlotte, but local streets don't permit "cutting through" a neighborhood; thus traffic is too heavily dependent upon primary roads (which have inadequate laneage).
Real estate in Charlotte is still somewhat affordable, but that will change as population increases, which means that the population will continue to move further and further away from downtown CLT. The idea that people will live close to their places of employment is foolish; people will only do that if they can afford to.
The City needs a solid plan on how they plan to move citizens about the City, in a timely fashion. Light rail is a great choice in that regard, but the City needs to proceed in a proactive fashion before more building (e.g. River District).
These are not my ideas. The Charlotte Observer has been pushing this agenda since the early 1990s. Most of the decision makers in the area are against new freeways. Charlotte wants to use Denver as a model. I do not think new freeways will be built after the Monroe By-pass. But I agree with NDL that metros that do not have a very good freeway system develop major congestion. Seattle is 15th largest metro but ranks 6th in congestion because of its poor freeway system. Atlanta is 9th most populous metro but now ranks 4th in congestion according to a new report that came out yesterday. It too has a poor and inadequate freeways system. You can also include Portland and Austin in this group. Charlotte does not rank high in congestion now. But the gridlock is coming. Dallas is 4th largest MSa in population but ranks like 15th in congestion because of its major freeway system. If you disagree with the way Charlotte is heading then make your ideas known to transportation officials or chamber of commerce or newspaper.
There is nothing wrong with creating more density along rail lines and building more rail. But if more freeways are not built then congestion is coming
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,702,154 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC
These are not my ideas. The Charlotte Observer has been pushing this agenda since the early 1990s. Most of the decision makers in the area are against new freeways. Charlotte wants to use Denver as a model. I do not think new freeways will be built after the Monroe By-pass. But I agree with NDL that metros that do not have a very good freeway system develop major congestion. Seattle is 15th largest metro but ranks 6th in congestion because of its poor freeway system. Atlanta is 9th most populous metro but now ranks 4th in congestion according to a new report that came out yesterday. It too has a poor and inadequate freeways system. You can also include Portland and Austin in this group. Charlotte does not rank high in congestion now. But the gridlock is coming. Dallas is 4th largest MSa in population but ranks like 15th in congestion because of its major freeway system. If you disagree with the way Charlotte is heading then make your ideas known to transportation officials or chamber of commerce or newspaper.
Philadelphia probably has fewer freeways than anyone would imagine possible. There is a reasonable public transportation system in the region & people don't hesitate to use it, whether it's bus, train, trolley. That's important. People need to be willing to use public transportation & not think of it as something that's "less than", or for people who are "less than". That's where a Gaston line has an advantage. There used to be a line that was used. CATS turned their noses up at Gaston 9 or 10 years ago. That was a big mistake.
Still, as the towns here increase in population & some add some density it will make the area a better candidate for rail service.
When you look at metros such as Atlanta and Seattle you see two metros that stopped building freeways long ago. Atlanta continued to build additional capacity but that was not enough without a world class transit system. Seattle is also missing a first class transit system. The result is that Atlanta is the 9th most populous metro and ranks 4th in congestion and Seattle is the 15th most populous metro and ranks 6th in congestion. If growing metros like Atlanta, Seattle or Charlotte are not going to continue building new freeways and, they do not build a world class transit system then gridlock is the result. I see Charlotte heading in that direction.
But i do know that Charlotte is against building new freeways because they do not want to create more sprawl. But 3-4 rail lines will not be enough to avoid gridlock. If Charlotte is not going to build additional freeways (and it says that it is not), then it must model itself after Denver. Denver is building 8-10 new light rail lines. But Charlotte does not have a means to fund these lines. And the outlying counties such as Gaston or Union may not be willing to join a regional transit system and allow the county to levy a $.005 (1/2 cent) sales tax. There are alot of questions. But one thing is for sure the transplants keep coming. The Charlotte metro will be 5.0 million is 40 years. How big is 5 million? Boston's metro is 4.8 million.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,702,154 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC
When you look at metros such as Atlanta and Seattle you see two metros that stopped building freeways long ago. Atlanta continued to build additional capacity but that was not enough without a world class transit system. Seattle is also missing a first class transit system. The result is that Atlanta is the 9th most populous metro and ranks 4th in congestion and Seattle is the 15th most populous metro and ranks 6th in congestion. If growing metros like Atlanta, Seattle or Charlotte are not going to continue building new freeways and, they do not build a world class transit system then gridlock is the result. I see Charlotte heading in that direction.
Keep in mind that state DOTs determine how many freeways will be built, where & how. Legislatures fund them.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,702,154 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC
But i do know that Charlotte is against building new freeways because they do not want to create more sprawl. But 3-4 rail lines will not be enough to avoid gridlock. If Charlotte is not going to build additional freeways (and it says that it is not), then it must model itself after Denver. Denver is building 8-10 new light rail lines. But Charlotte does not have a means to fund these lines. And the outlying counties such as Gaston or Union may not be willing to join a regional transit system and allow the county to levy a $.005 (1/2 cent) sales tax. There are alot of questions. But one thing is for sure the transplants keep coming. The Charlotte metro will be 5.0 million is 40 years. How big is 5 million? Boston's metro is 4.8 million.
When the legislature is finally purged of the tea party it will have to sit down with the DOT & the municipalities & figure out what is needed & how to fund it. Major changes will have to be adopted.
Gaston was willing to add the transportation tax. It's hard to say if they would now, after CATS told them to go pound sand in a rat hole.
Mecklenburg needs to build the red line, but they have to figure out how to do it with no cooperation from Norfolk Southern.
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