Gasoline tax: obsolete method of funding roads? (Oregon: how much, construction)

[pvande55]

For decades, the State and Federal government has relied on gasoline taxes to fund road construction. The argument was the more you use the roads the more gasoline you use. But this ignores the fact that if you drive at rush hour you have a bigger impact on the system, and if you only drive at midnight you do not need the extra lanes. Alternative fuel vehicles are coming on line which do not pay any gas tax. Plus raising the tax has become politically difficult. Most of the funds for road construction now come from other sources. Perhaps vehicle-mounted GPS could keep track of when and where you drive, and assess the tax.

[cubssoxfan]

Originally Posted by pvande55

For decades, the State and Federal government has relied on gasoline taxes to fund road construction. The argument was the more you use the roads the more gasoline you use. But this ignores the fact that if you drive at rush hour you have a bigger impact on the system, and if you only drive at midnight you do not need the extra lanes. Alternative fuel vehicles are coming on line which do not pay any gas tax. Plus raising the tax has become politically difficult. Most of the funds for road construction now come from other sources. Perhaps vehicle-mounted GPS could keep track of when and where you drive, and assess the tax.

Like in Oregon?

[04JETTA]

it will become obsolete, there's no question on that, the question is, what do we replace it with, friend and I talked about this for an hour and a half.........................................nothi n had lots of ideas, but they all had too many flaws

[slow_nerve_action]

Originally Posted by pvande55

Perhaps vehicle-mounted GPS could keep track of when and where you drive, and assess the tax.

Besides the privacy issues this brings up, and the cost of implementation (everyone has to have a GPS, and then I have to pay state workers to monitor or amalgamate the data - egads!) , it also does not address WHAT you drive. A mile driven in a Land Bruiser will cost as much as a Prius? Not a sensible solution.

Plus, it could be seen as a regressive tax at a time when such measures are already unpopular. The rural poor have to drive 25 miles to a Wal-Mart, another 10 to the doctor, and then another 10 to work. Their wages are already lower and stretched as is.

The Dutch are implementing a system next year that monitors what you drive, where you drive, and when you drive, and a lot of urban planners are looking to see how that project goes.

[5Lakes]

Well, more than gas tax taxes are used to fund roadway projects. Our gas taxes would actually have to be substantially higher to truly pay for the costs of roads, but this country has chose to subsidize automobile transportation.

As far as the rural poor go, they choose to live where they do. In some cases the costs of personal time and transportation for traveling long distances for goods are outweighed by the fact that they can live cheaper in a rural area. If this ceases to be true than they can always move closer to a more developed area.

I think the best option to tax vehicles beyond a gas tax would though a registration fee. It could be based on the weight/axels of the vehicle and the amount of miles driver per each year between registration periods. Of course people could tamper with odometers to decrease their tax. Or we could just have a single registration fee across the board or just base it on vehicle weight.

[04JETTA]

Originally Posted by slow_nerve_action

Besides the privacy issues this brings up, and the cost of implementation (everyone has to have a GPS, and then I have to pay state workers to monitor or amalgamate the data - egads!) , it also does not address WHAT you drive. A mile driven in a Land Bruiser will cost as much as a Prius? Not a sensible solution.

Plus, it could be seen as a regressive tax at a time when such measures are already unpopular. The rural poor have to drive 25 miles to a Wal-Mart, another 10 to the doctor, and then another 10 to work. Their wages are already lower and stretched as is.

This is what concearns me, especially for farmers

The Dutch are implementing a system next year that monitors what you drive, where you drive, and when you drive, and a lot of urban planners are looking to see how that project goes.

that could work, would it deduct from your bank account? what if you don't have a bank account? also how much would it cost the average motorist? I know you don't know the answer, but keep in mind, states, counties, and cities use gas tax to fund things as well so if the us has a $0.10/mile fee, then different states have another fee, then different counties, it gets a bit expensive

[04JETTA]

Originally Posted by 5Lakes

Well, more than gas tax taxes are used to fund roadway projects. Our gas taxes would actually have to be substantially higher to truly pay for the costs of roads, but this country has chose to subsidize automobile transportation.

As far as the rural poor go, they choose to live where they do. In some cases the costs of personal time and transportation for traveling long distances for goods are outweighed by the fact that they can live cheaper in a rural area. If this ceases to be true than they can always move closer to a more developed area.

I think the best option to tax vehicles beyond a gas tax would though a registration fee. It could be based on the weight/axels of the vehicle and the amount of miles driver per each year between registration periods. Of course people could tamper with odometers to decrease their tax. Or we could just have a single registration fee across the board or just base it on vehicle weight.

it's already $100 to register your car here, not sure if ppl can afford anymore, in tx they have something like that, where there's a state fee, then an additional fee depending on what county your in, but then, they also build a bunch of toll roads, and that's not going to work everywhere weight/axles/vmt could work, except for the lower class (ex. farmers) who don't neccesarily make the income to pay for that kind of tax

EDIT: and mods, I apologize for the double post, could not get multiquote to work for the life of me

[pvande55]

I suppose a mileage tariff would be a possibility, of course heavier vehicles would be assessed a higher cost per mile. But I would like to see it lower during off peak hours, because the cost of adding new lanes only used to capacity in peak hours does not benefit those who drive in off-peak hours.

[04JETTA]

Originally Posted by pvande55

I suppose a mileage tariff would be a possibility, of course heavier vehicles would be assessed a higher cost per mile. But I would like to see it lower during off peak hours, because the cost of adding new lanes only used to capacity in peak hours does not benefit those who drive in off-peak hours.

prob. the most efficient way to do it imo, only 2 problems remain

1. once again, lower class (sorry to sound like a broken record, but farmers going to the market always come to mind), you could give them a discount, but is that really fair, thier basically getting a subsidized ride then

2. Privacy (many will say it's not really the gov'ts buisness how many miles they drive)
you could just say too bad on this one, but i'm not sure ppl would go for it

my friends dad was just saying, they'll require vehicles to have i-pass (if you don't know what they are, google can probably explain it better than I can lol) like devices, so if you wanna use the interstate highway system, you have to have one of those, of course the problem is, how does this help non interstate highway roads, and of course, you still have the lower class issue

[5Lakes]

Originally Posted by 04JETTA

it's already $100 to register your car here, not sure if ppl can afford anymore, in tx they have something like that, where there's a state fee, then an additional fee depending on what county your in, but then, they also build a bunch of toll roads, and that's not going to work everywhere weight/axles/vmt could work, except for the lower class (ex. farmers) who don't neccesarily make the income to pay for that kind of tax

I hear what you're saying, but the money has to come from somewhere. In California the registration on cars can cost several hundred dollars, although the way they do it does not make sense to me because it's based on the value of the car instead of its impact on the road. We in this country are used to being able to drive on the cheap. In Europe they have crazy high gas tax, car tax, and even major fees to just get a license. What Europeans pay in taxes to support automobile infrastructure is probably more reflective of the true cost of driving, even if it sounds crazy to an American. Basically their transportation subsidies are more balanced between roadways and public transit.

I think the rural lower class is going to have it tough in the future, and transportation is just part of it. I grew up in a poor rural area and have witnessed its decline over the years. There are simply not enough jobs in small town America like there used to be. I think you will see people in these communities move closer to cities out of necessity. I don't really know how the small farmer will make it. It's tough for the little guy these days.