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Let's be honest, underground parking rules don't exist in Chicago for the same reason that other things that could benefit Chicagoans don't exist - those in charge care more about money than about the citizens. It's why we don't have enclosed walkways (like Minneapolis) and copious heated enclosures for all public trans waiting spots.
Our leaders just don't give a darn.
Except both of those examples also have downsides other than financial cost for citizens. Off-street walkways reduce the vibrancy of the street, and fully-enclosed transit stops take up more space, can hurt the street, and can also result in scary isolation where Bad Things can happen. So those are a trade-off, and one that citizens don't universally support.
Underground parking, on the other hand, is almost entirely a financial and engineering issue.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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I don't find TORONTO high-rises superior to CHICAGO'S. With a underground garage. Many still have little retail street-level.... some can.
CHICAGO'S with a garage above ground. Still can and do have retail street-level. Many around older buildings have plenty all around already. Many are a community in a community. It is a benefit to have in-house conveniences too.
I find these 2 PODIUM-GARAGE HIGH-RISES across from each other STUNNING, GREAT ARCHITECTURE that HIDES THE GARAGE VERY WELL and STILL HAVING RETAIL/BUSINESSES STREET-LEVEL
SOME TORONTO ONES. I don't find much better at street-level. Sorry. You still see the entrance to the garage and similar retail of a podium one in Chicago done with some too.....
IN REALITY.... IT MIGHT SOUND BETTER WITH NO PODIUM? BUT THE REALITY IS..... STILL DESIGN, ASTHETICS AND OF COURSE RETAIL and DOESN'T MATTER AT WHAT FLOOR THE LIVING AREAS START.
AGAIN I FIND MOST CHICAGO ONES AT LEAST NEWER 2000 ONES. DONE WELL WITH RETAIL STREET-LEVEL ....WITH THE PODIUM GARAGE VS. EXAMPLES I SEE IN TORONTO WITHOUT??? I also like how Chicago adds GREEN SIDEWALK BLOCKS OF GREEN and even builds then in Medians in streets it redoes.
No trying to make this a Chicago high-rise vs Toronto either... JUST MY OPINION IN COMPARING.
SO I SAY...... CHICAGO DOES NOT NEED TO MANDATE UNDERGROUND PARKING. IF DESIGNS WITH REATIL ARE DONE WELL AS NEWER ONES ARE and the city adds green to street-levels to or the builders.
Any sane person that has been to Toronto is always impressed by how well integrated their underground network of garages, pedestrian malls /walkways, and transit connect the central city. They clearly have a more comprehensive way of getting public spending aligned with private investment.
Keep making excuses for Chicago being a city of insiders that caters to the most corrupt and there will be more deals that bilk taxpayers so that pals of politicians get premium sites for their private restaurant in Millennium Park or tax payer funded sports arenas instead of schools that educate kids for the future..
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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OH GAWD.... I thread is NOT about INTEGRATION on Malls and for winters pedestrian underground walkways even from garages. It is Podium-types of High-Rises Chicago allows but OP notes that Toronto mandates NO podium-types but must be underground. THIS IS ALSO NOT TO BE A POLITICAL SWIPE Thread....
Why the same negative political including MUST BE IN EVERY POST and ALLOWED.... I don't know. I know what would happen if I did it? Maybe a partial on topic sentence makes ALL the additions OK?
But apparently someone DOD NOT find TORONTO non-podium high-rises any better street-level as I basically said in my post.....
I just see newer buildings are being done MUCH BETTER in Chicago WITH PODIUM-GARAGES and even JUST A GARAGE. Because MORE add Retail today. Why I say..... a MANDATE to underground is not needed.
Chicago is not Manhattan or Houston. One street-level can be chaotic the other dead and full of huge banal parking garages. CHICAGO IS A MIX, STLL MORE MODERN AND GREEN AND ITS STYLE IS AS IT IS.
Chicago still IMPRESSES far more then not. With added residents downtown still growing increasing density and adding retail to cater to them.
Always some improvements can be made. But OVERALL.... I GIVE THE CITY HIGH MARKS FOR CHOICES IN PROJECTS AND IMPROVEMENTS DOWNTOWN.
NO ONE NEED GIVE MILLENIUM PARK A SLIGHT. Who cares if they added a private club. Heck in Washington that's STILL NORMAL and not merely the US. I don't call it corruption. It's THE AMERICAN WAY. We allow BUSINESSMAN to use MEALS in HIGH-END Restaurants to DO DEALS.
I have NO PROBLEM with a city having a PRIVATE Restaurant/Club to DINE BUSINESSMAN TO DO BUSINESS ON THE CITY AND MAKE A DEAL..... Maybe THEY TOOK DONALD TRUMP THERE TO DEAL FOR TRUMP TOWER..... OR THE CHINESE BILLIONAIRE TO GET THE WANDA TOWER to be built 93-stories on Wacker Dr. Sorry to feed into a Political comment..... What's the difference if it was in City Hall or Millennium Park?
Similarly Rahm is continuing the tradition of using TIF funds, that are legally supposed to be used to redevelop BLIGHTED areas to instead have insiders get a sweetheart deal - Come to the South Loop and see how Mayor Rahm's wasting your money | Ben Joravsky on Politics | Chicago Reader The City is grabbing land that contributes to the tax base and converts to non-tax paying entertainment sites. Heck, if this is not clear enough indication that insiders like Rahm care more about other insiders that really expanding the revenue of Chicago I don't know what is...
The reason this happens is because people are too mesmerized by whatever shiny new thing is dropped in front of them, voters in Chicago are treated like woodland creatures that can be easily distracted. And they respond like squirrels too, storing up that their little drinking excursions over the summer and being dazzled by some mirror-like towers so that they ignore the real threats that they could address in elections. I only feel a little bad that they'll eventually get smashed like road kill when the crushing blow of the city bankruptcy finally wipes em out...
Last edited by chet everett; 12-16-2015 at 12:26 PM..
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Other cities Big and small are no different. I was just in Houston forums. They have some UNHAPPY threads on their Politicians and pension/debt issues and corruption. http://www.city-data.com/forum/houst...irst-step.html
Nice comment in that thread on their mayor and election.......
----Conservative businessman Bill King took 71 percent of the vote in the city's majority-white voting precincts, where residents also turned out in the highest numbers. Turner won a whopping 93 percent of the vote in majority-black precincts, however, erasing King's turnout advantage. Voter mobilization, black turnout drive Turner win - Houston Chronicle
Then this thread and comment in it... http://www.city-data.com/forum/houst...e-problem.html ----Some folks are realizing the pension debt issue is a problem that can't keep getting pushed behind the curtain. Budgeting based on 8% pension growth is a poor idea. As long as the Democrats have blacks and unions in their pocket I don't expect the trend to change.
and this comment.....
Turner was one of the only candidates stating he would not go after the pension issue. He had the police, firefighter and teacher unions all backing him. That made a huge difference and likely won him the election.
Other cities have similar issues to same political Party wrangling and blame...
My area in PA of Small cities have plenty of cases of Political Wrangling. Judges in jail, corrupt county Commissioners/Alderman a Former governor that took from School Districts allocated funding....to pay Pensions debts. He was even a Republican. Then he lost the Re-Election run because ALL LOCAL TAXES WENT UP because the School shortfalls forced it. My School Taxes doubled in 2 years.
Fitch has awarded the City’s general investment its highest portfolio rating, AAA. The Treasury Division is also responsible for overseeing a debt program of approximately $13 billion. The City has 15 commercial paper programs totaling $1.675 billion, seven auction-rate security issues, nine series of variable rate demand obligation bonds, SIFMA indexed notes, and two interest rate swaps with a total notional amount of $902 million and credit agreements totaling $ 2.55 billion. The City’s general obligation debt is rated Aa2 by Moody’s; AA by Standard and Poor’s; and AA by Fitch Ratings. In its most recent general obligation ratings report, Moody’s cited the City’s large tax base, demographic trends and above average economic outlook as strengths. Standard and Poor’s affirmed the City’s AA rating on its general obligation debt based on the City’s “sizable, deep, and diverse economic base.”
Chicago, because of your $20 billion pension debt, your credit worthiness is being downgraded. You have bad credit. That's the message that three major credit rating agencies sent to Chicago this past week. Moody's Investors Service dropped the city down two notches, to junk status. ... With the exception of Detroit, Chicago is really alone now among major cities carrying the junk bond rating from at least Moody's... That also means higher yields, higher interest rates, higher taxes to service that debt.
Chicago's junk status could push lenders to demand up to $2.2 billion in immediate principal and interest payments. And that'll fall on the backs of city residents. ...that's certainly a risk because this level of tax increase is no minor deal. And it will have implications for the economy.
I agree with NOLA. It is simply a money issue like nearly everything else. It is cheaper to build parking podiums than underground parking. Changing the laws will make for more attractive development, but also more expensive.
The same thing goes for the 10-50 glass box high rises that typically mount these parking garages. They are cost effective to build & more affordable VS more attractive unique high rise that is more expensive.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,282,012 times
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You win Chet.. I will just have to do this.... next time I think of replying to you..... Now I need one of these.... my dark beer at my Hosey (Volunteer Fire company found throughout small towns here YET. They have BARS TOO and basically clubs get a membership for. Like a VFW or American Legion, Elks and others that exist). I need a....and its Taco Nacho night too..... LOL.
Chicago I'll still defend y'a but I do not want to be banned replying THREAD DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE CLOSED because of us.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge Bueno
I agree with NOLA. It is simply a money issue like nearly everything else. It is cheaper to build parking podiums than underground parking. Changing the laws will make for more attractive development, but also more expensive.
The same thing goes for the 10-50 glass box high rises that typically mount these parking garages. They are cost effective to build & more affordable VS more attractive unique high rise that is more expensive.
I have too reply.... their can and are Chicago podium ones that are EXPENSIVE HIGH-END and Attractive Unique too.
It is Chicago-style too.... but far from Houston ones. I love to be able to afford one.
Chicago is not NYC. It has aspects of the Loop similar. But not all areas need be like Manhattan or European city. One can prefer NYC with far less podium ones.... but the thread spoke of Toronto in particular and theirs DO NOT seem better without the Podiums but with underground garages instead. That was what my original comment was....
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OR THE CHINESE BILLIONAIRE TO GET THE WANDA TOWER to be built 93-stories on Wacker Dr. 
