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Not so Mike, what you were attempting to show was that those who kampto/bow to Jesus Christ means the same thing as the demons who prospipto/fall down. To kampto and to prospipto is NOT THE SAME THING, so you CANNOT equate them together as if they mean the same thing, which is what you did. If the demons had of kampto to Jesus you would have had an argument, but they did not kampto they prospipto which undoes your whole argument.
As for the definition you gave, it is man’s understanding, but the scriptures themselves define kampto as bowing in worship as in every place kampto is used in scripture is in reference to worship. But that will not mean anything to you, as you would rather trust man’s definition of words over the definition scripture gives to words.
So not only did your attempt to make kempto and propipto mean the same thing undo your whole argument, scripture itself by only using kempto to worship undoes your whole argument.
So you simply defeated your own argument, and all I did was point it out to you.
Again, what I showed was that the demons recognized that Jesus is the Son of God and they gave Him that respect. But it was not out of love. They were terrified that Jesus was going to send them into the abyss where they would be tormented before the time. So too in the future, unsaved humanity will, before being cast into the lake of fire acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. And whether bending the knee or falling on the face, is not the issue. The issue is that they make the acknowledgement.
In Phil 2:10-11 the word kempto simply means that unsaved humanity and the fallen angels will bend and yield to the will of God. And they will be compelled to acknowledge the Lordship of Christ.
Again, the demons already know that they are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire. They know there is no escape.
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We would do well to note that, contrary to the false teaching known as universalism, Paul is not here declaring that all people will eventually be saved. (God has issued a universal call to salvation, not a call to universal salvation.) The emphasis is on the universal acknowledgement that is Jesus' rightful due. Every person who does not willingly bow the knee to Jesus now will one day be compelled to do so. "Those who will not be reconciled in the day of His grace will be subjugated in the day of His judgment." [REF] Likewise, subjugation is not the same as reconciliation. To be saved is to be reconciled to God, and reconciliation is never associated with "those ... under the earth." The Bible nowhere promises reconciliation/salvation to the lost. [REF] As the Scripture says: "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).
Philippians 2:9-11 - The Exaltation of Christ (http://shakinandshinin.org/Philippians2_9-11-TheExaltationOfChrist.html - broken link)
And lest it has escaped anyone's notice, Matthew 7:21-23 states that many who do things such as casting out demons, and prophesying, and performing miracles in the name of the Lord, and who will call Jesus Lord, will be told by Jesus to depart from His presence because He never knew them. They will have had never placed their faith in Christ for salvation and therefore are eternally lost.
I really like that site as well. Lots of great commentaries by very reputable scholars and linguists, a must for any Biblical student.
What many fail to realize, is that, in 1 Corinthians 15 Pauls refers to this same event where the "kingdom" and "all powers and authorities" are handed to the Father, that is, the kingdom of death, apostacy, sin, etc, are submitted to God as Christ being victorious over it, and the redemption and salvation/resurrection of Israel. Nowhere do these verses imply, or even remotely condone universalism, but what they do condone, is victory, and absolute submission that God, Christ, and their everlasting rule and authority, is in control of everything, and not one ounce of what had bearing and dominion over the saints, can hold them captive again. This is another clear cut example of universalism butchering the word of God again, to support their pardigm that stands on nothing but presupposition and false premises imposed into the scripture, before it is even read! All will not be saved. They cannot even get the themes right. These verses, all of them, including Isaiah 45, is about the Parousia, the second coming of Christ, AND NOT JUDGEMENT POST MORTEM.
They will have had never placed their faith in Christ for salvation and therefore are eternally lost.
You appear to give everything, you see, all the meaning it has for you.
"Eternal security rests not within the thoughts of men, but in the faithfulness of Christ."
No one puts new wine into old wine skins, or else the new wine will burst the wine skins and be spilled,
and the wine skins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wine skins, and both are preserved.
No one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says; the old is better. (Luke 5:37-39)
To the contrary. And you have brought this up before, and it has been answered before. The only ones who appear before Christ for condemnation to the lake of fire are those who did not believe in Him for salvation. These people are judged on the basis of their works. They cannot be judged for their sins because their sins were already paid for at the Cross. Therefore, as is shown in Revelation 20:11-15, unbelievers are judged on the basis of their own human righteousness.
Matthew 7:21 shows that those who had been prophesying, performing miracles, and casting out demons in the Lord's name were commanded by Jesus to depart from Him because He had never known them. They had never believed in Him for salvation, and their works were called lawlessness by Jesus.
And as Matthew 25:41 shows, the place where the unbeliever departs to is the eternal fire.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
You have brought this up before, too, and it has been answered before. Matthew 7 nor Matthew 25 say anything about believers or unbelievers.
Regarding John 3:36, it talks about eternal life, which is "to know Him" according to the scripture in John 17:3. The wrath of God "remains," so I don't know what you think that is, but for it to remain on him, it must already be on him, which proves it's not talking about a literal hell.
Revelation is full of symbolism, and the lake of fire is symbolic, just like the Lamb. God will not set people on fire. That would be the opposite of love, holy, and just.
You have brought this up before, too, and it has been answered before. Matthew 7 nor Matthew 25 say anything about believers or unbelievers.
Regarding John 3:36, it talks about eternal life, which is "to know Him" according to the scripture in John 17:3. The wrath of God "remains," so I don't know what you think that is, but for it to remain on him, it must already be on him, which proves it's not talking about a literal hell.
Which proves, as I had said, that we are BY NATURE (born into this world) as
"children of wrath". Do you know anyone passing through this world who escapes the wrath all around? I don't. And the way of escape while we are yet in our mortal bodies is through faith in Christ -- faith in his love. This faith works in us patience and joy while we are suffering. But we no longer fear wrath (though we may experience it still at the hands of wicked men - like ETers, for example!). Only those who believe that God is completely merciful can be free in their minds. The mind of Christ is the mind that Jesus had when he SUBMITTED HIMSELF TO THE DEATH OF THE CROSS. Did he believe then that his Father in heaven was UNLOVING? NO! Did he believe that death was to be feared? NO! Jesus taught us that it is by the FEAR OF DEATH that mortal men have power over us. They did not have power over Jesus because he was not AFRAID of DEATH. He had FAITH in his Father's goodness. Boy am I mad at the ET doctrine - really, truly mad! I'm fired up! Yes, I am! The dEVIL sucks!
Which proves, as I had said, that we are BY NATURE (born into this world) as
"children of wrath". Do you know anyone passing through this world who escapes the wrath all around? I don't. And the way of escape while we are yet in our mortal bodies is through faith in Christ -- faith in his love. This faith works in us patience and joy while we are suffering. But we no longer fear wrath (though we may experience it still at the hands of wicked men - like ETers, for example!). Only those who believe that God is completely merciful can be free in their minds. The mind of Christ is the mind that Jesus had when he SUBMITTED HIMSELF TO THE DEATH OF THE CROSS. Did he believe then that his Father in heaven was UNLOVING? NO! Did he believe that death was to be feared? NO! Jesus taught us that it is by the FEAR OF DEATH that mortal men have power over us. They did not have power over Jesus because he was not AFRAID of DEATH. He had FAITH in his Father's goodness. Boy am I mad at the ET doctrine - really, truly mad! I'm fired up! Yes, I am! The dEVIL sucks!
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him
LOL, the word is Gehenna.
News flash, Gehenna was a trash pit just outside the wall of Jerusalem, in the valley of the sons of Hinnom, where the bodies of criminals were thrown after they had been killed.
Guess what? The thief that was crucified with Christ was likely thrown into Gehenna after he died, yet he will be in paradise with Christ.
Again, what I showed was that the demons recognized that Jesus is the Son of God and they gave Him that respect. But it was not out of love. They were terrified that Jesus was going to send them into the abyss where they would be tormented before the time. So too in the future, unsaved humanity will, before being cast into the lake of fire acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. And whether bending the knee or falling on the face, is not the issue. The issue is that they make the acknowledgement.
You say kampto/bow is not the issue
But than you make it the issue here
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In Phil 2:10-11 the word kempto simply means that unsaved humanity and the fallen angels will bend and yield to the will of God. And they will be compelled to acknowledge the Lordship of Christ.
You again equate kampto/bow and prospipto/fall down to meaning the same thing.
You keep undoing your whole argument by this insistence.
What you are doing is no different then if I saw someone trip and fall flat on their face and seen some kneel down to worship God and saying look everyone both are worshiping God.
I suppose if I used your reasoning we can all say there and their mean the same thing.
For that is exactly what you are saying and you expect people to agree with you that they mean the same thing. Sure they may sound the same but the definitions are worlds apart.
That you insist on defending your error shows me you are more concerned with your doctrine then you are for the truth.
Philippians 2:10,11 Every Tongue Will Acknowledge That Jesus is Lord. But Many as His Defeated Enemy. Not out of Love
Philippians 2:10,11 states
Quote:
Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Again, I will believe the scripture and have no reason to believe Mike555.
It is ALWAYS trustworthy to confess Jesus as Lord.
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