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Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. Rom 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Rom 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Rom 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. Rom 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; Rom 7:23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
Brian, I can appreciate that but then you have scriptures like this:
2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 2Th 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 2Th 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Mat 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. Mat 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible. Mat 24:25 See, I have told you ahead of time. Mat 24:26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. Mat 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
Hi JViello,
the one who exalts himself is the flesh of man, and it is he who must be taken out of the way. Christ is in our hearts, when we were created. God allows the serpent/flesh to have its way for a certain period of time. But when the Father begins to draw you in your heart, He will show you the Son within you. This is the beginning of the Kingdom within. This is how you know that you are in the faith. See 1 John 4. When you see Him in your heart, then you won't follow those who say "go here!" or "he is there!" There is a lot of confusion, a lot of denominations and ministries, but few recognize that Christ is to be found within, not flying on a cloud somewhere.
The Scriptures are a spiritual declaration, and are not to be understood as literal stories, but spiritual types. ime.
The test Paul is talking about, as I understand it, is whether Christians truly know and have experienced that Jesus Christ is IN them; that is, not beyond the clouds somewhere, but actually dwelling in their flesh. (The second coming.)
Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. Rom 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Rom 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Rom 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. Rom 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; Rom 7:23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
Brian, I can appreciate that but then you have scriptures like this:
2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 2Th 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 2Th 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Mat 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. Mat 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible. Mat 24:25 See, I have told you ahead of time. Mat 24:26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. Mat 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
We all fail the test. That is not necessarily the point. Perhaps the point is having perspective on our personal shortcomings? The point is a greater appreciation for the work of Christ on our behalf. The point is that we should recognize to begin with ...
Hi JViello,
the one who exalts himself is the flesh of man, and it is he who must be taken out of the way. Christ is in our hearts, when we were created. God allows the serpent/flesh to have its way for a certain period of time. But when the Father begins to draw you in your heart, He will show you the Son within you. This is the beginning of the Kingdom within. This is how you know that you are in the faith. See 1 John 4. When you see Him in your heart, then you won't follow those who say "go here!" or "he is there!" There is a lot of confusion, a lot of denominations and ministries, but few recognize that Christ is to be found within, not flying on a cloud somewhere.
The Scriptures are a spiritual declaration, and are not to be understood as literal stories, but spiritual types. ime.
Blessings,
brian
Okay, so when there is a singular, personal reference to an individual above, you think it's just symbolic? Same for a reference to a specific day?
When it speaks of the second coming being seen by all as lightning in the sky, you think it's something else?
We all fail the test. That is not necessarily the point. Perhaps the point is having perspective on our personal shortcomings. The point is a greater appreciation for the work of Christ on our behalf. The point is that we should recognize to begin with ...
Oh no doubt. Agreed. There just seems to be a *twing* of "Christ is not in you if you "sin" or "fail the test" in there. I was simply pointing out in that light the messenger himself, Paul struggled with sin, as we all do.
Oh no doubt. Agreed. There just seems to be a *twing* of "Christ is not in you if you "sin" or "fail the test" in there. I was simply pointing out in that light the messenger himself, Paul struggled with sin, as we all do.
Okay, so when there is a singular, personal reference to an individual above, you think it's just symbolic? Same for a reference to a specific day?
When it speaks of the second coming being seen by all as lightning in the sky, you think it's something else?
Just making sure that's what you are saying.
Yes; I believe that the "coming of the Son of man" denotes the "presence" of Christ, in a company of people. That is, not just a few ones, here and there, but a large number of people.
Satan is bruised by Christ arising in man's heart. But it does not eliminate him completely, not yet. But when a person can see that there are two powers within the heart, one selfish, the other meek and lowly, loving and righteous, then they begin to see harmony in the Scriptures.
Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. Rom 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Rom 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Rom 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. Rom 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; Rom 7:23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
Keep reading. Head on into Chapter 8 and 'see' who won this battle, Christ namely. Remember, Paul is giving a SERMON in a letter to the Romans.
There are alot of "IFS" in Chapter 8. The Chapter 7 man has no 'ifs', and is talking about the prior covenant and a works based salvation.
Chapter 8 deals with this subject with Christ as the center, not man. So, there is no 'war', IF INDEED Christ is indwelt.
Read Romans 8:1-16. Let the Spirit do the talking, and let us not take Paul's letter out of proper context.
We are all tempted and we all fail from time to time the question is How do we deal with our failures? Do we continue in them or do we seek the Lord even more? We know we are in Christ when we know we sin and do not make excuses or justify our sins. We must have faith that the Lord will deal with our sins and constantly seek Him and prepare ourselves with prayer and study. Feed the Holy Spirit dont starve Him with you sin and rebellion.
[/indent]Keep reading. Head on into Chapter 8 and 'see' who won this battle, Christ namely. Remember, Paul is giving a SERMON in a letter to the Romans.
There are alot of "IFS" in Chapter 8. The Chapter 7 man has no 'ifs', and is talking about the prior covenant and a works based salvation.
Chapter 8 deals with this subject with Christ as the center, not man. So, there is no 'war', IF INDEED Christ is indwelt.
Read Romans 8:1-16. Let the Spirit do the talking, and let us not take Paul's letter out of proper context.
Correct, there is no "war" because Christ paid the price, the victory is won. Does that mean you will live "sin free"? LOL Good luck with that. In fact it's what separates us from the rest of the world religions that put emphasis on "purification" of the body in act and deed as a means of salvation.
Chapter 8 says it all in this verse.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
My body is dead because of sin, but my spirit is alive because of Christ's sacrifice. It does not say my spirit is alive because I stopped doing something. Just the opposite, it says my spirit and body is DEAD BECAUSE of the deeds as Paul so clearly pointed out at the end of Chapter 7
Rom 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God-through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
There is nothing wrong with trying to attain goodness, nothing wrong with wanting to live with less "bad". However your righteousness does not come from it, and to say othewise is indeed "another Gospel"...the one of every other world religion such as Islam, Hindu etc.
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